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Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Extremaduran

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Extremaduran Wikipedia edit

submitted verification final decision
  This proposal has been approved.
The Board of Trustees and language committee have deemed that there is sufficient grounds and community to create the new language project.

The closing committee member provided the following comment:

This wiki was created at ext.wikipedia.org. —{admin} Pathoschild 02:29:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Proposal summary
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  • Speakers: 200,000. 500,000 able to use it, including some monolinguals. Ethnic population: 1,100,000 (1994) (Ethnologue).
  • Location(s) spoken: Autonomous region of Extremadura and a few neighboring areas (Ethnologue).

According to these statistics, you can see that the Extremaduran Language has a real community of speakers. Against the general idea of its birth, Extremaduran comes directly from the Astur-Leonese old dialect, derived form Latin, and not from Spanish. Extremaduran is brother of Asturian, Leones, and cousin of Galician.

It has its own literature, with writers such as w:José María Gabriel y Galán, w:Luis Chamizo Trigueros, José María Alcón Olivera, Juan José Camisón, Pablo Gonzálvez González and nowadays a lot of anonymous authors, who share their works by Internet. Some years ago, Antonio Correas translated the bestseller entitled "The little Prince" (El Prencipinu) to the Extremaduran Language.

Arguments in favour edit

  • Strong Support I think Extremaduran can be a consolidated project. There are 1,000,000 potencial speakers, and 500,000 real speakers now. Spain is full of rich dialect and this is one of them because of its mixtures (Aturian, Leonés, Gallician, Portuguese...). I think it's more necesary to support these live dialects than others which are dead. --Trauciol 15:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • support every language deserve the right of a wikipedia. ISO 639-3 seems to exist. Tobias Conradi 21:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support From my point of view all languages should have a place on the internet where people could find information easily, and if someone knows about something in particular, share his knowledge. There are no webpages like this written in extremaduran language, so... Why not Wikipedia? I hope I will be able to look for documents in this language, my language, soon. Better 19:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This Wikipedia was proposed a long time ago and received very very much support. Extremaduran is a very unique linguistic entity, and it deserves its own Wikipedia. --Node ue 02:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • conditional support if it has its own ISO code, and ethnologue entry then i say go as long as theres 1 person willing to work on it.Qrc2006 23:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Pietras1988 19:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  • I think the Iberian peninsula is more or less "covered", but if there are enough people willing to work on an Extremaduran Wikipedia, why not have an edition in that language? --ARBE0 16:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support It is obvious that in Extremadura we don't speak in the same way that in the rest of regions of Spain. We have our own entity since some centuries ago, our own customs and traditions. There exists also some number of documents and books written in Extremaduran (see as an example the famous book "El miajón de los castúos" by L. Chamizo, or some works by Gabriel y Galán, Quintana brothers, some recent doctoral thesis concerning some phonetic and gramatical differences respect to other dialects, etc...). It would be nice if all of us (more than 1 million people) could write and express our feelings, history and beliefs in our own way. A wikipedia extremaduran will be well maintained for sure. --Masconde 02:12, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support: I agree with all previous arguments. Purgossu
  • Strong Support: If someone is willing too help write using this LANGUAGE then there will be someone willing too read it !
  • Strong Support: I agree with all previous arguments. Olarcos
  • Strong Support: There are six native speakers willing to participate in this project. The following articles have been created already. Since the other Iberian languages such as Castillian, Galician, Asturian, Catalan, Aragonese etc. already have their own flourishing wikipedia editions, the Extremaduran language should also be given the opportunity and priviledge to be created as well. --Jose77 10:08, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support: I think that the Wikipedia is a good support to foment languages in the net. The Extremaduran language is only one of the many characteristics of the rich and manifold culture of Extremadura. It’s a chance to create a solid place of knowledge in this language about this Spanish region and about the rest of the world. Thousands of speakers need to know that there’s a virtual space written in their mother tongue. To present a Wikipedia in Extremaduran language contributes to consolidate and to normalize a language with more than a century of written tradition, with hundreds of writers (Luis Chamizo, Gabriel y Galán, J. Feijoo, P. Gonzálvez González, J. M. Alcón Olivera, J. J. Camisón and so on), and with centuries of oral tradition. “Estremeñu” is a daughter of medieval “llionés” like “mirandés” in Portugal or like “a fala de Xálima” and she’s granddaughter of Latin language: I think she’s worthy of a place in the source of knowledge of Wikipedia. --Fraili Carmona Valviensi 16:22, 6 June 2007

Arguments against edit

  • Weak oppose/Débilmente en contra: In my readings about Extremaduran, I've seen strong discussion about their nature. Besides the claim that come from Astur-Leonese, it is said is an "asturianized" Castilian or an "asturianized" Andalucian. Moreover, I'm a native speaker of Spanish from Chiloé, and my dialect is so closer to this language that I don't see big differences with a phonetical approach my spoken Spanish except the final -u. Lin linao 01:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC) / En los textos que he leído acerca del extremeño no hay acuerdo acerca de su naturaleza. Junto a quienes dicen que es un derivado del astur-leonés, hay otros estudiosos que lo consideran un castellano "asturianizado" o un andaluz asturianizado. Por lo demás, soy un hablante nativo de español de Chiloé y mi dialecto es tan cercano a este lenguaje que no veo diferencias entre él y una aproximación fonética al español que hablo, a excepción de la -u final. Lin linao 01:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: technically is a astur-leonese dialect. --Taichi - (あ！) 02:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Asturian dialect, --Mikel 09:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: The Extremaduram is only a colection of dialect and there aren´t 500000 speakers even of the all of the extremaduran dialect. --unsigned from 80.102..52.47
  • Strong oppose: astur-leonese dialect. --Jorgechp 13:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, covered on ast. drini [es:] [commons:] 13:46, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, another Astur-leonese variant. ->http://ast.wikipedia.org KoMuNeRo MaG 19:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, Loco085 15:43, 29 June 2007 (UTC) It's a dialect. There are a lot of new account created for support that project. That's strange.[reply]

none.

  • Oppose, --81.40.180.101 03:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC) Extremadurian as it appears in the Wiki simply does not exist. I am a teacher of Language in the region and I can say:[reply]
  • that nobody speaks that false dialect in this way
    • Well.... explain me, please teacher, the reason i speak that false language.... don´t insult us, please... i don´t speak portuguese, but i don´t go to the portuguese edition saying they speak a fase dialect. Better
  • in the region only some hundred people speaks a real dialect "fala" in the northwest angle of the region; the 500,000 speakers are a joke,
    • Of course, A fala exist, but "artu-estremeñu" too, the 500,000 are the people able to speak extremaduran (Fala, artu, meyu i bahuestremeñu, purtugués oliventinu...) correctly and understand it. Better
  • Chamizo or Galán did not write at all in this way; that could be seen in their works,
    • Extremaduran castillanized.... but, it´s obvious that it´s not spanish (people who have read the book at less, have understand only a little) Better
  • in the region there are lots of dialectal diferences, some are similar in Andalusia, some are similar in South America and most are not the same in the whole region,
    • I think you are confused..... the güiquipeya is written in the variety of "artu-estremeñu" (hight-extremaduran) (at less, when i write something to opose it, i read it first...) so andalusian influence is not very important... of course, there are some diferences between places but.... if you don´t speak it (mmm, well, before you said that there was nothing to speak because it is a false dialect....mmm). Some people is contributing in the proyect and at the moment we have no problems. Better
  • the careness for the cultural particularities does not need a language invention.

--81.40.180.101 03:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • What do you mean? You mean we don´t have cultural particularitis? and you are teacher?..... I´m student of Civil Engineering (Ingeniero de CAminos, Canales y Puertos) and at less, i can sure in Extremadura we have our own arquitecture (there are no new building construted in that way, but you only have to go to a extremaduran town, that makes me think the "teacher" has never been in Extremadura). Woooo now it´s a language invention.... mmmm at first, it was a false dialect, secondly, there were dialectal diferences.... and now, we invented the language... and APLEX, for example? and all the newspapers written in extremaduran?... Greetings! Better

Hey, what you mean with dialect of Astur-Leonese?The wikipedia in spanish so should not exist because the castilan isa dialect of Astur-Leonese as well?Everybody knows that spanish is not a language, just a mixed language of italian and portuguese.Why that wikipedia exist so? --Santista1982 19:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

General discussion edit

  • It comes from astur-leonese, but we can´t understand most of the things written in asturian wikipedia, so if we can´t read and write there... Extremaduran and Asturian were separated many centuries ago, the evolution of both have been diferent, for example: to speak, in asturian is falar, and in extremaduran palral. Better 18:32, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • All the modern languages around the world have their own roots, but this don't rest importance or entity to a given language. In the same way, you can find that Extremadurian could come from astur-leonese but this is not important at all. Castellano was initially just a dialect from the latin... Even more, Extremaduran has evolved by its own since some centuries ago and it is obvious that we don't speak as people from Asturias. There are more influences, of course, like galician, portuguese, many similarities with andaluz in the south of Extremadura... But in all the case is exactly the same. The culture and history of Extremadura, and the way of speaking of its people, is well defined and unique. Masconde 03:35, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • One thing that everybody may want to consider in choosing their arguments is that we are NOT here to decide what is a proper language and what is not. ISO does it for us all, and whatever arguments are presented in favor of Language creation/deletion/renaming fall in the ranks of Original Research. We all have our ideas about lots of things, yet this is a wiki, i.e. a place in which we collect information about what the ACADEMIC world says, not about our own personal stance. There is a consolidated international linguistic practice that went codified into ISO, we use that. It's obviously not without faults and we all are positive that for any ISO entry you can find a number of accredited researchers that have a different opinion, because linguistics is a human science, yet I suppose all of us agree that ISO is better qualified to make decisions of international relevance than any of us will ever be. So all arguments like it's just a dialect are void in principle. All we want to know at that level is whether a linguistic entity has international recognition from ISO or not. The wmf does not change that recognition level in any way, it simply acknowledges it, no matter if it's right or wrong. --Bèrto 'd Sèra 09:05, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Sorry, but what does it mean? If Wikipedia administrators want to know something of each user of th Extremaduran Wikipedia, talk.... i don´t know... we are able to probe all is correct (we are trying to make the things as well we can, and at the moment, the Güiquipeya has more than 150 articles), i don´t really know why some people is opposing saying that it is a dialect when they know that Extremaduran and Asturian are very differents... and of course, Asturian comes from latín.... what means you can´t have a Wikipedia, isn´t it? and the same with English, Spanish, Portuguese... all are dialects... Better 11:24, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Extremaduran it's a transitional dialect between Asturian, and Spanish. Create a Wikipedia for Extremaduran will legitimate to build a wikipedia for Spanglish for example. Also 500.000 people spoke Asturian, but not Extremaduran... --Mikel 18:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Things are not so simple: extremaduran has its own vocabulary (and portuguese vocabulary too, don't forget it ^^), sentences, grammar... it's not a mixture done in few years, it's been there, growing, for centuries. However, like Bèrto 'd Sèra says, we are not here to decide what is a proper language and what is not. Y bueno, personalmente, decirte Mikel que el asturiano estuvo en el mismo caso en el que se encuentra ahora el extremeño hace no tanto, e incluso todavía hay gente que no lo acepta como lengua, y en mi opinión, te comportas como los que entran en la uiquipedia a quejarse de que eso no es una lengua y tal y cual... tu sabrás, en fin, es solo mi opinión.
  • Some questions.... people has to continue voting here? and a question for the board of trustees... when will the extremaduran wikipedia be finally approved?... Have we got to do something?... Greetings! Better 19:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Un pequeño matíz, el asturiano es un dialecto del latín exactamente igual que el castellano, esto no lo discute ningún linguista serio, nadie habla de oficialidades, pero el extremeño es un dialecto del asturiano enormemente influenciado por el castellano. No tiene una entidad linguistica propia, el asturiano si.--Mikel 18:54, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • La Wikipedia en extremeño ya está aprobada, en ese aspecto ya no hay vuelta atrás.

Como se ha dicho más de una vez, aquí no estamos para decidir qué es una lengua y qué no lo es. Aquí sólo se toma lo que dice ISO 639-3 en cuenta, y me temo que ahí da lo mismo un código al extremeño que al asturiano (ext y ast), ambos son lenguas por igual oficialmente para la UNESCO por ello.

Me temo que andas algo confundido con respecto a qué es lo que convierte una lengua en tal. El hecho de que el asturiano proceda del latín (esto es, que posea evoluciones propias a partir del latín diferentes de romances circundantes) directamente NO es lo que lo convierte en lengua. El asturiano occidental por ejemplo posee evoluciones a partir del latín que no se dan en el central, en algún caso coincidentes con el gallego (diptongos crecientes en -eiru, por ejemplo) y además el asturiano occidental no "procede" del central. Igualmente el asturiano central posee evoluciones a partir del latín que no se dan en ciertas formas del occidental (la pervivencia del neutro en el neutro de materia, la terminación latina -um da "-u" y la terminación latina -o da "-o", de ahí que se diga "yo canto" pero "gatu", mientras que en algunas variedades occidentales las terminaciones se confunden). Pero tampoco el asturiano central viene del occidental. Con lo que, con ese argumento, llegaríamos a la conclusión de que el asturiano occidental es una lengua diferenciada del central, por derivar cada uno directamente del latín. Las lenguas criollas como el haitiano derivan de lenguas europeas como el francés y el inglés y sin embargo son lenguas.

De hecho el hecho de que proceden del latín no impide a muchos filólogos carcas-fachillas actuales considerar al aragonés y el asturleonés "dialectos históricos" del "español" (incluyendo al actual vice-presidente de la RAE). Igual que el asturiano occidental, en tanto procede directamente del latín y no de otras variedades de asturiano, sería un "dialecto histórico" del asturleonés. Que el aragonés y el asturiano proceden del latín es algo que se ha sabido desde siempre, pero hasta hace bastante poco eso sólo ha servido para que se los considere "dialectos históricos" del español y no "dialectos no históricos" (como el andaluz o el canario). Sigue habiendo lingüistas serios, especialmente algunos carcas y fachillas, que insisten y requeteinsisten en que el asturiano no es lengua, sino dialecto histórico del "español". Si se dio una Wikipedia al asturiano es precisamente por la misma razón por la que se le ha aprobado al extremeño, porque posee un código SIL propio. Porque "filólogos serios", a los que se lleva todo el siglo XX considerando como de referencia, que no lo consideren una lengua te puedo sacar yo a patadas.

El extremeño en ocasiones puede llegar a ser más diferente del castellano normativo que el propio asturiano, especialmente si tomamos el asturiano oriental. Contiene una mezcla de rasgos asturleoneses, meridionales, propios y arcaizantes (rasgos que se daban tanto en asturiano como en castellano que se han perdido en ambas lenguas). El vocabulario también tiene diversos orígenes (asturleonés, galaicoportugués, arcaísmos...). Y hay un montón de aspectos gramaticales curiosísimos que no se dan ni en castellano ni en asturiano (el vocativo, el gerundio locativo, los pronombres reduplicados de reciprocidad...). Te sorprenderías. Donde vosotros decís "dicir" nosotros decimos "idil" y donde vosotros decís "cocina" nosotros decimos "codina".--Ringurrangu 09:52, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Final localization edit

Please provide the translation for "Wikipedia" (project name) and "Wikipedia" (project namespace) so that we can create the wiki. —{admin} Pathoschild 06:03:25, 06 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Please confirm that the following is correct:
Variable Translation Explanation
$wgSiteName Güiquipeya Site name; appears in the title bar, in the interface, and can be shown in articles using "{{SITENAME}}".
$wgMetaNamespace Güiquipeya Project namespace; appears in URLs and links to the namespace about the wiki.
$wgMetaNamespaceTalk Caraba la Güiquipeya Talk namespace for the project namespace.
—{admin} Pathoschild 19:05:06, 08 March 2008 (UTC)
It's all right. Greetings! Better 19:14, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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