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Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Cook Islands Maori

Cook Islands Maori WikipediaEdit

main page Requests for new languages (Wikipedia Cook Islands Maori)
submitted verification final decision
  This proposal has been closed as part of a reform of the request process.
This request has not necessarily been rejected, and new requests are welcome. This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy.

The closing committee member provided the following comment:

This discussion was created before the implementation of the Language proposal policy, and it is incompatible with the policy. Please open a new proposal in the format this page has been converted to (see the instructions). Do not copy discussion wholesale, although you are free to link to it or summarise it (feel free to copy your own comments over). —{admin} Pathoschild 23:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Proposal summary
  • Language details: Cook Islands Maori (Māori Kūki 'Āirani, rar ISO 639-3)
  • Editing community: Scott Gall (P)
    List your user name if you're interested in editing the wiki. Add "N" next to your
    name if you are a native speaker of this language.
  • Relevant pages: —
  • External links:
Please read the handbook for requesters for help using this template correctly.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

In search for Native speakers Ka inangaro matou i te au tangata 'ei tuatua ma tata meitaki i roto i te reo maori Kuki Airani

  • Speakers: 43 000 in Cook Islands, French Polynesia and New Zealand
  • Relevant links:
  • Notes/comments:
    • Another request by Scott Gall with complete absence of native speakers, fluent speakers, or even advanced learners. Should be denied, along with all past and future requests from him. --Node ue 16:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • The two might look as if they were the same, both of them being called Maori, but they both have their differences. We could move the New Zealand Maori Wikipedia to mi-nz.wikipedia.org. Scott Gall 08:15, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • Scott Gall, after a few weeks, the link you mentioned above to an article on Cook Island Maori is still idle. Could you write that article, please. I think many of us are interested in the particular differences and similarities between New Zealand Maori and Cook Island Maori.--Caesarion 15:08, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • I created a redirect to the article on the Rarotongan language five minutes ago. Rarotongan and Cook Island Maori are the same as each other, but not the same as New Zealand Maori. Scott Gall 04:27, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
        • So "rar" is better. (16 Mar 2005)
          • OK then. rar.wikipedia.org it is. Some New Zealanders call it Cook Island Maori, possibly because it's similar to Maori and the Cook Islands are part of New Zealand. Scott Gall 00:29, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
            • It's no more similar to Maori than is Samoan. The reason some people call it Cook Island Maori is out of ignorance. --Node ue 16:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
              • Not so - it is way more similar to NZ Maori than Samoan is. Ck Maori and NZ Maori are closely related as members of the Tahitic subgroup of Eastern Polynesian and have quite a high degree of interintelligibility as I can vouch for from my personal experience. Not the case with Samoan.en:User:Kahuroa 00:27, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
            • I can't see a difference between Cook Island Maori and Rarotongan either. NazismIsntCool 08:50, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Support Belgian man 21:04, 3 Jul 2005 (UTC)
    • Strong Support Actually Rarotongan is one of the dialectal variation of Cook Islands Maori. The others dialects are the one of Ngaputoru (Atiu, Mauke, Mitiaro), Mangaia, Aitutaki, Rakahanga-Manihiki, Penrhyn (reo tongareva). There is a complete intelligibility between all these dialects. The only exception in Cook Islands is the language of Pukapuka which is closer to Samoan and the language of the three atolls of Tokelau. According to the Cook Islands Legislation (te reo Maori act 2003), Maori

"(a) Means the Maori language (including its various dialects) as spoken or written in any island of the Cook Islands; and

(b) Is deemed to include Pukapukan as spoken or written in Pukapuka; and

(c) Includes Maori that conforms to the national standard for Maori approved by Kopapa Reo"

http://www.paclii.org/ck/legis/num_act/trma2003130/

There is no intelligibility with tahitian and New Zealand Maori

I think mi-ck or mck would be the best choice. I'm not sure that people from outer islands would appreciate if you use rar for rarotongan. Moreover, they probably would not participate to it or it would create useless debates. There are no official census of the number of speakers but I think they must be about 30000 including those living in New Zealand, Australia or other parts of the world. If you create a wikipedia in Cook Islands Maori, people there would appreciate even if I do not think there will be hundreds of articles everyday. It will take time. I have a basic knowledge of the language but it would be better if a Cook Islander start it. It should not be too difficult to find. They also call it "te reo ipukarea", litterally "the language of ancestral homeland". So why not "ip-ck"...????

fr:Utilisateur:Nevers

  • Neutral, but oppose to a proposal (present, past of future) because it was written by Scott Gall is a bad idea'. Hégésippe | ±Θ± 07:30, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose - not still a dialect-Wiki more, spoken by 43.000 (!!! - wow... /:) native speakers. Who should write there? Kenwilliams 19:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
    I recommend reading all the comments before voting if you don't know anything about the topic. As stated several times above, this is an entirely separate language from Maori in New Zealand, and from other Polynesian languages. The name "Cook Islands Maori" is widely used in part because traditionally there was no name covering all the languages (and dialects) spoken in the Cook Islands, and excluding those spoken in other countries. --Chamdarae 18:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
    Chamdarae, just ignore it. Ken clearly thinks he is omniscient in the area of languages, and that languages that are not oficially recognised don't exist. Or don't you? You seem to think so. Tell me, do you really think there are only 200 languages in the world rather than the 6,000 Ethnologue lists? Tell me, have you ever red one word in or on the Pacific languages? Caesarion 09:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
    Ethnologue is grossly incomplete. I alone can identify some 200+ languages they have not yet listed, some of them being macrolanguages with many dialect variants. I must assume their coverage of other parts of the world is not much better. Compare Ethnologue with the Linguashpere Register, and you find tons of differences. If memory serves right, Linguasphere has about 8 of the abovementioned languages missing from Ethnologue. Taking these figures, my estimate of the number of the human languages of the word is way beyond 10 000. -- Purodha Blissenbach 01:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Support nl:Boudewijn Idema, 13:52 , 19 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Support Is a official language, and maybe use the Kopapa Reo standard for the Wiki.--Taichi - (あ!) 20:21, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Support Aeetlrsk 23:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose with fire Why on earth would you want to open a Wikipedia without native speakers to work on it. Get a few native speakers, then open the Wikipedia. You'll just get bored after a few weeks and then we'll just have another spam magnet. - FrancisTyers 19:38, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
It's no use to be opposed. We just have to wait for motivate native speakers (at least five or ten). Actually internet is very expensive and slow in Cook Islands. I've heard High speed connection should be installed before the end of the year (at least on Rarotonga). I suppose it will help to find speakers
I agree with User:Taichi and largely agree with Francis (and with Node ue!), although two keen native speakers could be enough. I've posted a message on an appropriate "local" forum urging its members to look at this page. Robin Patterson 01:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Nice! Belgian man (nl na en) 12:02, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Weak Oppose—when I see a thriving test-wiki, I'll reconsider. The Jade Knight 07:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Support - is as distinct a language as Tahitian or Hawaiian. en:User:Kahuroa 00:27, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Conditional oppose - I would support if some lessons were learned from the experience of the NZ Māori Wikipedia. That site was allowed to go live in 2004 before any of the major pages were written in Māori, or before there were any help pages written in Māori - and that is the way they stayed till very recently. Bizarrely, non-Māori New Zealand English speakers with zero or minimal knowledge of the language or of the culture, were allowed to become administrators and/or bureaucrats, and some of them went on to make hundreds of stubs, mostly with one or two sentences in fractured "Māori", or of lists with much of the content in English. The result was a site cluttered with stubs and redlinks, with the main pages and help pages in English or a few of them partially in so-called Māori, a Māori full of errors of all kinds, and English as the working language. This meant that whenever a native speaker or fluent speaker of Māori visited the site, they were appalled, embarrassed, or angered, and went away never to return. Not only that, but the burden left for any users who did speak the language was enormous in terms of editing and translation work, and of arduous, repetitive fixing-up. It's way too much to ask - and native and fluent speakers are conspicuously absent to this day. A Wikipedia whose language has a limited number of speakers requires a lot of commitment and dedication from its users, so I think its fair enough to ask the supporters of this proposal to show their dedication by being prepared to put some work on show beforehand. So let them make a test wiki, in good Cook Islands Māori language with good layout on the main page, community portal, village pump, key help pages, conventions of editing and quality control, pages explaining what the pillars and conventions of Wikipedia are, and what the proposed conventions of the new Wiki are, first. en:User:Kahuroa 00:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Agree with that ! This is why the request is on this page isn't it ? What is important is that the principle of creation was accepted, which was not so evident at the beginning when you read comments. It will take the time it needs to find native speakers (according to me five is a minimum, to start a real encyclopedia). We just have to be patient. I would add that you are in Auckland, Kahuroa. Heaps of Kuki airani live there so try to motivate them. I'm afraid internet is still too expensive in CK at the moment. Unhappily, i'm living in Paris, it is more difficult for me. fr:Utilisateur:Nevers

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.