Requests for comment/Is their a failuer of wikimedia movement and wikipedia culture to take native american cultures and people in confidance? if so, then why ?

The following request for comments is closed. Stale since almost 2 years. Only 2 users ever edited the page. No conclusion. --MF-W 14:20, 21 August 2017 (UTC)


Hi,

Why I am taking this issue here at meta is whether there is a failuer of wikimedia movement and wikipedia culture to take native american cultures and people in confidance so that they can share their cultural information freely? if there is such a failure, then why and what corrective measures wikimedia movement is expected to take those communities along with with rest of the world ?

On one of the article talk pages of English language Wikipedia, I came across a recent statement of a wikipedian namely en:user:CorbieVreccan saying that, "traditional people (here probably he is refering to the native (north) american people) - the ones who know the full ceremonies (here probably he is refering to religio cultuaral etc ceremonies)- do not want details of ceremonies published or publicly discussed. Many of them would prefer we not have WP articles on these topics at all." en:user:CorbieVreccan further states that, "but I don't always have the option of putting in more specific details, both due to it not being sourceable to en:WP:V standards as well as ethical concerns and cultural boundaries." Besides in his statement he seems to doubt correctness of available information in publiclly available sources (including en:WP:RS.)

Being a wikipedian from non-american culture, and knowing that North american culture by now in 21st century is expected to be plural enough that the ethnic cultures atleast of North americans feel safe to share their cultural information public platform like wikipedia with more confidance. I suppose US a nation that saves yazidis from persecution irrispective of their shade of conscience and belife must be taking care of safety of their indigenous people irrespective of their beliefs.

In 21st century where information is so easily shared and already available on internet en:user:CorbieVreccan would be able to stop at the most information coming one en wikipedia, but their are indipendant language wikipedia projects in hundreds of world languages and besides wikipedia internet is full of millions of websites. Actually if information about native north americans avaible presently in all the sources is incorrect then is it really going to help native americal cultuers by hiding the correct information about their cultures because hiding of the information may become cause of retainment of mis information through various medias and languages. Would it not be the best policy that sharing of correct information whatever it may be shared with wiki movement more openlly and confidently.


If reason of reluctance to share information is commerical loss then wikipedia is more of a text dependant encyclopedia and not likly to cause a loss of revenue on cultural celebrations. May be that since I am from India where majiority celebrates and apreciates plurality of ethnic beliefs much more easily so ethnic communities from India feel it more free to share their culture more openly than that of north american native communities.

21st century native american people also are expected (correct me if I am wrong) to be educated enough to understand the above point and must be enough aware of wikipedia and encyclopedic culture, Why I am taking this issue here at meta is whether there is a failuer of wikimedia movement and wikipedia culture to take native american cultures and people in confidance so that they can share their cultural information freely? if there is such a failure, then why and what corrective measures wikimedia movement is expected to take those communities along with with rest of the world ?

May be I am entirelly wrong to depend on a single source info mentioned by an individual user, then please help me and others to know better on this subject.

With best wishes to north american native communities for their cultural plurality and warm regards

Mahitgar (He who knows ,wants to know and and loves to keep others informed) (talk) 07:48, 17 October 2015 (UTC)


"traditional people (here probably he is refering to the native (north) american people) - the ones who know the full ceremonies (here probably he is refering to religio cultuaral etc ceremonies)- do not want details of ceremonies published or publicly discussed. Many of them would prefer we not have WP articles on these topics at all." en:user:CorbieVreccan further states that, "but I don't always have the option of putting in more specific details, both due to it not being sourceable to en:WP:V standards as well as ethical concerns and cultural boundaries."
The way Mahitgar has chopped up my words is confusing. See diff for what I actually said: [1]
Mahitgar's comments: "(here probably he is refering to the native (north) american people)(here probably he is refering to religio cultuaral etc ceremonies)". Mahitgar, please do not reconfigure other people's comments this way. - CorbieVreccan (talk) 16:39, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


  • Comment It's not the role of Wikipedia or Wikipedians to try to pressure people to change their cultural values. Rather than a failure, on either side, this is just a cultural difference. We already have a Wikiproject where we deal with Indigenous issues. I could say more about how you are portraying our communities here and in the edits you've made, but others can see that for themselves and I'm going to hope that at least some of this is due to language barriers. CorbieVreccan (talk) 14:59, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


Hi,
Once again, this is a discussion page,- not english wikipedia article but wikimedia forum we are discussing failuers of wikimedia movement and wikipedia culture to take american indigenous people in confidance so that they would have shared their cultural aspects more freely- , my perceptions are my perceptions as of now that I have elaborated above, you have every right to put forward your side. The way you do not expect me to misrepresent you simillarly it is for you not to strike out my sentences but you kindly write your comments separately.
Unfortunatley you seem to keep calling names and resort to personal criticism. First of all I am not at all in editing the article talk page you have made specific comment. If you have not clarified some thing then others have to assume and write in the bracket, If my perceptions written in the bracket are not correct then it is very much for you to inform the global wikimedian community what exactly you mean to say. I know your english is better than me and you can afford to be more transparent so that wikimedia movement and indigenous people of americas benefit. If there is Wikiproject where wikimedia is dealing with Indigenous issues, then let those people join this discussion and let people of those communities themselves put forward their position too on what makes them uncomfortable to share encyclopedic information freely enough ? and what more wikimedia community can do for them to open up more freely.

PleaseClarrify


In above sentence where I have placed templates {{specify}} {{which}} and {{cn}}, I suppose there is scope for clarification.


As of now prima facia from your statements, I tend to assume that, there is a wikimedia movements failure in taking american indigenous communities in confidance and hence they are not happy to share their encyclopedic information freely enough.
Let us be to the point and not waste time of meta community (I am available with open mind for point to point discussions), I am not sure if any other point of yours come under meta and wikimedia foundation perview.
Thanks and regards
Mahitgar (He who knows ,wants to know and and loves to keep others informed) (talk) 18:56, 21 October 2015 (UTC)