Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Zhuang Wikipedia

The result of the following proposal for closing a WMF project is to KEEP the project. Please, do not modify this page.

I propose to close this discussion in 4 days if there are no objections. -- Prince Kassad 19:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

The result of the deletion discussion is weak keep. I know I'll get criticized for that, so I'll provide a reason:

Most oppose reasons were just "maybe", "if", "wait", etc. These votes are assuming something will happen in the next years that makes this Wikipedia more active. But the current situation is that most, if not all native speakers cannot access this Wikipedia due to the Great Firewallcitation needed, and judging from the current political situation in the PRC, it's highly unlikely the ban will be lifted in the near future. Also, there are no large emigration waves of Zhuang speakers to free countries (unlike Chinese), so we cannot expect any activity in that direction either.

The Zhuang Wikipedia has no legitimate activity in the last 2 months, which can be easily verified using za:Special:Recentchanges. The articles that exist are barely worth keeping a Wikipedia edition for. I'll list each article in the article namespace (as of now):

The next pages are spambot pages and yet another redirect, I'm not going to count these.

If I counted correctly, there are 12 pages that 1. consist of a sentence and 2. are in Zhuang. I don't think this is sufficient, most of them were created in 2005 and apparently by Node ue, whose Zhuang speaking abilities I still doubt. This means that nobody is there to manage the Wiki, and so it's open to vandalism.

Whether 12 articles are enough is subject to debate. My normal threshold for Wikis is 3, which is surpassed here. However, there's no activity in this Wiki, and no native speakers with access to it. It's a very close decision, but I think keeping this open is the best solution at the moment, especially with Incubator's new inclusion policy that deletes inactive projects. Comments to the decision can be left on the talk page.

On a final note, the Zhuang Wikia has got no activity in the last month, so it's sadly no alternative. -- Prince Kassad 14:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Closure of Zhuang Wikipedia (13 Support, 16 Oppose)Edit

The closure of the Zhuang Wikipedia has been proposed some time ago, but either the proposal was deleted on this page or it has never been put here. —Babelfisch 08:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Status update: A request has been posted to a Zhuang-speaking community in Mainland China (Contents in Chinese language). What appears to us is that: Most Zhuang-speaking community is blocked away by the great firewall of Mainland China. What is more, the officials in Guangxi AR are known, according to other articles in their BBS, to be very corruptive and keen to please their upper officials by taking tight control to their daily life. Therefore, it is not that likely they can continue to participate in the Zhuang Wikipedia, unless the ban from Mainland China is lifted. I am sorry to see that so many people fluent in Zhuang are banned from accessing Zhuang Wikipedia, but there is little we can help. From the experience of Chinese Wikipedia, people have been setting up "tunnels" to pass through traffics to wikipedia sites, but they are blocked by mainland officials very quickly. I have suggested them to build a local mirror in Mainland China, just like what the was doing before it merged to become our Min-nan Wikipedia. -- Tomchiukc 07:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Support closing ZAEdit

  1. Support. There are currently 12 articles (see list). Almost all of them are stubs. Some are not in standard Zhuang, eight consist of less than ten words, one is nonsense and marked for deletion. For the past nine months, only three new articles have been created. The interface is all in Chinese. There seem to be no admins. I wonder how this project was started in the first place. —Babelfisch 08:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
    This is a lie. All articles are in STANDARD ZHUANG. --Node ue 00:59, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Don't be childish. Two articles that are not in Standard Zhuang (obvious from the spelling): Tiagkäquân Puutôô Quaangcí and Tôô.
Even the main page is mostly in English and Chinese. Most of the other articles consist of one or two three-word sentences like
"The USA are a country. The capital is Washington."
Examples of such stubs: Gvanghcwngh, Gvangjcouh, Meijgoz, Cunghvaz Yinzminz Gunghozgoz, Baekging and India (title is not standard Zhuang). If your Zhuang is that great, it would be a wonderful first step to translate the interface or to locate the administrators who would able to do that. —Babelfisch 06:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Babelfisch you deceptive lilypad. You didn't show the full titles. These articles are written entirely in STandard ZHUANG it's just a part of their titles which aren't. Now you need to get your things in order before the Zhuangs knock your socks off. --Node ue 08:10, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
What is the problem with such articles you slowly-ripening lotus flower? If you allow them to stay they will turn good by Zhuang eventually. You are obviously as sweet as a honeycomb and in the morning the dew on the chrysanthemums will show us all your real level of intelligence, you medium-sized prawn. ---Node ue 08:10, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
User Node ue, I strongly suggest you have a look at the following Wikipedia guidelines before you continue to "contribute":
If you continue to discuss in this manner, you might be blocked or banned from Wikipedia. —Babelfisch 15:59, 4 July 2006
Oh, so is "lilypad" an insult now? What about "slowly-ripening lotus flower"? And what is wrong with telling someone they are sweet? Isn't that a compliment? And I am a vegetarian, I do not eat prawns, they interest me and I like to read about them. If you're going to accuse me of insulting you, you delicate river, do some research first. --Node ue 09:19, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Those are obviously subtle jabs in rouse of not insulting, this user is very problematic and has called people and languages and ideas like communism and such, well nouns, piles of crap and the like all over the Moldovan Wikipedia delition discussion, i doubt he speaks moldovan and zhuang and in fact most people doubt he can speak either. i would think he has too much free time or hasn't found a place of his own on the english wikipedia, i would support having him blocked for a time and someone to talk to him to try and get him to be more productive and friendly.Qrc2006 00:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
  1. Support There are no real articles and no recent activity. TSO1D 16:25, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
  2. Support --Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 10:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
  3. Support Ridiculous --Iubito 17:24, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
  4. Support -- Obvious, especially when its only editor is probably this joker here. Smyth 09:05, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
  5. Support --Vlad 22:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC) Agree with previous people having voted in favour of closing this one.
  6. Support Strongly. per proposer -- Deleteur 16:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
  7. Support per nom. J.smith 00:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  8. Comment Just to let you know it takes a while for a wiki to get active. You seem to think it takes a small amount of time. It does not. Give this wiki time and I think it will do well. Peace:) --La gloria è a dio 19:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
  9. Support No activity, articles are mostly stubs. --Johannes Rohr 06:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
  10. Support -- Recent changes in the last 30 days: 2. This Wikipedia appears to have been around about 17 months. No activity + no articles → no wikipedia. --A. B. (talk) 18:32, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
  11. Support Many Incubator Test-wikipedia are more active than Zhuang. Perhaps it is because most Zhuang people do not yet have access to the computer or internet. --Philip J 21:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
  12. Support -- Dear all, I did not know that there was a discussion about closing the Zhuang Wikipedia. I visited the wikipedia yesterday and collected some statistics. The statistics are shared among on the Chinese wikipedia mailing list, as well as a Zhuang minority BBS in Mainland China. I summarized my findings as: We are sad to see its closing, but people who can write cannot access it, due to the Great Firewall; The wikipedia has only 26 pages that 5 pages are redirections, 3 pages are rubbish, 3 pages contain sensible contents and others are simple pages with one to two sentences. There is little activity except spamming and robots maintenance for about two years. -- Tomchiukc 07:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
  13. Support, it's better to have more voluteers to participate in Zhuang Wikipedia first, otherwises, it would be a place for spammers only. Stewart~惡龍+Chat here! 02:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Oppose closing ZAEdit

  1. Oppose. Anti-Zhuangic user TSO1D has an anti-Zhuang agenda as he has proven before. --Node ue 23:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  2. Oppose. Language spoken by 18 millions of people in the area without a lot of Internet. They will come in the future. --Millosh 14:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
  3. Oppose.--Jasonzhuocn...._交流 06:33, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
  4. Oppose Koavf 17:58, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
  5. Oppose. Wait. Maybe enough native users will arise. Hégésippe | ±Θ± 16:42, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  6. Oppose --Klemen Kocjančič (Talk - Fast reply) 23:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  7. Oppose. Shutting down a version of Wikipedia in a language with a large number of speakers because of its inactiveness is really contraproductive: how's the wiki supposed to get active if there is no wiki? Shutting it down will only prevent it from being active in the future, and it'll mean additional work for developers having to set up the wiki again should the need arise. /The Phoenix 08:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
  8. Oppose. Lets give it more time to blossom. A-giâu 06:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  9. Oppose. Just wait. --Gray Porpoise 19:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  10. Oppose, strong oppose. A lot of wikipedias have been "sleeping" for a long time, but became active when a couple of dedicated contributors emerged. Just wait. Sleeping wikipedia does no harm to anybody. Kneiphof 23:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
  11. Oppose I think we should wait one more year to see if this project becomes active and if it does not grow much then we can shut it down.--Sir James Paul 16:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
  12. Oppose per Millosh, Hégésippe, The Phoenix, Kneiphof & Sir James Paul. - Ev 09:09, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
  13. Oppose I think we should give this project more time before making such a decision. Nishkid64 00:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  14. Oppose, Very important Wikipedia.--Afinogenoff 06:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
  15. Oppose just needs more time, some articles is better than no articles, i honestly suggest we have a policy of activly searching for native speakers/writters/readers before we can even nominate somthing for deletion. if it gets deleted i im opposed to that, maybe freezing if in 1 year there is no prgress but i doubt that there will be no progress a great deal. a small wikipedia means very little server space which means no harm, shutting down a wikipedia with 18 million users from a country thats fastly digitizing seems like only a preemptive waste of time for developers who will have to put it up again in the near future. strong oppose, keep it and keep it open, try and contact old contributors, new native speakers and get a sysop to volunteer to patrol for spam.Qrc2006 00:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
  16. Oppose There are articles, there are native speakers, so there is a Zhuang Wikipedia. Maybe it just needs a Wiktionary too. --Ooswesthoesbes 06:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
  17. Oppose I think we should consider deletion if and only if no progress is made if the Mainland China ban is lifted. Aeetlrsk 21:47, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
  18. Oppose I agree with The Phoenix. Ninane 18:31, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
  19. Oppose As above, we can wait. Majorly (talk) 16:17, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
  20. Oppose. We can wait. Either the block will be lifted or we will find more native speakers outside of China. If its still inactive for a couple of years, then we can consider again. Sr13 07:58, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
  21. Oppose Zhuang people live in the remote areas of Guangxi Autonomous Region where there is no internet or nearby computer shops. Another reason why this Zhuang Wikipedia has a few articles because of the ban made by the PRC because in Wikipedia, there are plenty of criticisms against them. When Guangxi will have their economic growth, I am sure that the Zhuang Wikipedia will progress also. In conclusion, the Zhuang Wikipedia can progress thru political and economical mean. Let's wait for some old contributors to come back and help our community. A-yao 03:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
  22. Oppose - The fact that access to Zhuang Wikipedia is blocked by a massive firewall in China is insufficient justification for the closure of this language edition. Zhuang expatriates living outside of China will be able to contribute to this language edition and will most likely do so one day. We need to be a bit more patient and look long term - can we be absolutely certain that there will be no Zhuang contributors in one or two years time? --Jose77 10:35, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
  23. Oppose It has been developing these days. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) 10:52, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Comments ZAEdit

Two questions: 1. Who are the adminstrators of the Zhuang Wikipedia? 2. How was this project started? —Babelfisch 06:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

The project was started like most Wikipedias you elegant silkworm!!! How did you think!??? There are no administrators, but why would it need one you charismatic beetle? --Node ue 08:10, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
You could just explain the affair to him, you don't need to be insulting. TSO1D 02:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Insulting? Since when is it insulting to call someone an elegant silkworm? Silkworms produce silk, they are much-valued creatures in the line of supply, and historically they have been very costly. Originally they were a closely-guarded secret of China, not allowed to export. Elegance is generally regarded as a positive trait. Charisma is, as well. Calling someone a beetle strikes me as particularly positive -- the beetle is a rather industrious animal. --Node ue 09:21, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Your total behaviour is very disruptive. Everybody is convinced about this thing. You lost your credibility long time ago. --Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 05:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
You're pretty funny. Do a google search for "credibility kid".
So you're flirting with Babel, then? Frank, claim, straight-forward language would be appreciated. -- Zanimum

On 26 July 2006, Node ue deleted the whole discussion on the closure of the Zhuang Wikipedia.[1] There has been no decision. Why this vandalism? —Babelfisch 06:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

It's not vandalism -- it was removed because there were more "opposes" than "supports", and the last vote had been added several days before the request was removed, thus the situation was unlikely to change. It's not the only request that has been removed from this page. If we kept all of them, this page would be insurmountably long and difficult to deal with. The preceding unsigned comment was added by IP, registered with Cox Communications, Atlanta, GA (talk • contribs) 08:17, 7 August 2006.
Why is not this troll and vandal Node ue blocked for good? --Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 14:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The vote is not closed as long as the board has not decided.
And: No Zhuang speaker has commented so far. —Babelfisch 03:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The board is unlikely to comment on such a case, given that the status quo is winning in the vote already, their comment is hardly needed. IT is unlikely that a Zhuang speaker will comment soon, and chances are very huge that any Zhuang speaker would oppose a close. --Node ue 21:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I have no idea how many Zhuangs are familiar with English. In general, minority areas tend to be the least developed in China. A-giâu 06:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Current StatusEdit

Some local speakers opened a new Wikia called the "Laeuz Wikia". In the Laeuz Wikia, they use a new kind of alphabet that covers the dialects from Mainland China to Northern Thai. Compared it with the official Zhuang language proposed by the official of Mainland China Government, which is based on only the dialect at the capital city of Guangxi and unwelcomed by people from other places. In additional, this Wikia seems not in the blocking list of the Mainland China officials. --Tomchiukc 09:20, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

That information is not precise.The standard Zhuang is based on Yongbei Zhuang which is the most populous dialect in Zhuang languages,not only because it's used in Namzningz.But the writing system which Laeuz Wikis used only covers few southern Zhuang dialects,the native speakers of these dialects are only half (or even less!) population of northern Zhuang languages!--Biŋhai 16:26, 9 July 2009 (UTC)