Help talk:Help page footer templates

Language links in template

I think the list of links to all language versions of a particular help page can best be put in a template such as Template:Go button, because the same list is used in each language version of the help page. When a language is added, updating the list is much easier this way.

Unfortunately langs={{Go button}} does not work, therefore I suggest that in all language versions of the footer template we abolish the parameter langs and in the help pages we add a template call for the list of links after the footer template. For a smooth transition I started with moving {{{langs}}} in the footer template (the English one, to start with) to the bottom. See Help:Go button and its translation Aiuto:Vai.--Patrick 09:39, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

For the names of the templates I suggest to use the English name of the help page, with "Help:" replaced by "Template:", like Template:Go button.--Patrick 00:18, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Accordingly, I moved Template:HC-lang to Template:Contents.--Patrick 00:28, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A complication is that an exact copy of the wikitext of a help page on Meta to another project now contains a tag like {{Go button}}. This requires making a template such as w:Template:Go button to avoid the tag being rendered as Template:Go button; if there is no need for putting any text here, it has to be an empty template.

If, like on Meta, the template is used for interlanguage links, than a complication is that for links to pages on Meta "m:" has to be added; on Meta that cannot be put, because it disables the self-link feature (changing a self-link into bold text).

For convenient managing of interlanguage links of help pages, perhaps they should be limited to Meta. I.e., go from w:Help:Go button to Aiuto:Vai through Help:Go button.--Patrick 12:30, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

First the easiest thing: It would be better if the template like Template:Go button the word(s) Languages: ... ehmm .. sorry .. I have not looked well .. you have done things very well, it is already done and in the way you have done old versions are still working. Good
We have to compleately define what we want on other projects, or even better we should know what the other projects, about the possibility of having different language. We definetely should consider hh and hc as project dependent. For example the help page on en wikipedia has hh and hc changed. (We can nmaed them Template:H:HH to make this more eviddent)
For me it is ok that in language specific project the help are only in that language and the link are done on meta. I will strongly prefear that the link are to the page on meta rather than to the page of the some project in different language. We should instruct user of different project to edit the help page on meta (like it is done with the message present in hh and hc in the en wikipedia). To make the link to other language on meta from another progect there are two possibiity:
- Just giving a link to the same page in the SAME language (which is easy, except in the case of namespace name conflict) saing that here links to different language will be found
- Giving explicit links to various different page on meta

AnyFile 16:40, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, hh and hc are project dependent.
Different project communities may have a different preference regarding having the master of a help page on Meta or locally. Whichever is the master should be linked to.--Patrick 16:58, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
After giving it some thought, I changed the two templates at the top such that only the tag {{h:h}} is needed (second h for header), {{NAMESPACE}} is used to distinguish between languages. Similarly {{h:f|..}} at the bottom (f for footer), the latter currently for English and Dutch only.--Patrick 00:57, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Template:Ed Used in Template:Go button contains the English words edit. Ok we cannot change language anytime or we have a problem of egg and chicken. The possibility are two:

We use +/- as done somewhere else

Okay.--Patrick 23:29, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We use a differnt name from Ed (to take Ed from the real english version), we can use a name like Ed_meta, Ed_help, Ed_langs or template:H:Ed. Actually depending on the choice about the link on other project, it may be desiderable that template is not edit on other project. If a template lwith an other name is used onother effect could be achived: on other project it is repalced with an empty space (or a space).

AnyFile 17:17, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

For now, I called it edi (i for international). If e.g. Template:Go button on other projects is similar to that on Meta (instead of being blank), it needs also an edit link, for updating, and adapting to the project.--Patrick 23:29, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I am reading Help:Template, to try to find a way to solve the problem you noticed, and I found that in this page the template Hc is used as example of what hapend if a parameter is missing. If we change this template we will have to change this help page. AnyFile 17:31, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Fixed.--Patrick 23:06, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Actually when I said blank template, in my intentention I was referring to the ed template (now edi) AnyFile

Yes, I understood that. A version of Template:Go button on another project that has some content such as links, also needs an edit link, hence the version of edi/ed (or whatever it is called there) on that project should not be blank. Anyway (and perhaps you meant that) the edit link should refer to the local version of the template, and not to one on another project, of course.--Patrick 08:50, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

conflict name for template

There is a problem we cannot always use Template:xxx for listing the traslation of Help:xxxx . Sometimes this template is already taken. I started using template name like Template:H-langs:Namespace AnyFile 10:49, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Good idea!--Patrick 22:29, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Template:h:h and Template:h:f

I changed Template:h:h to add a space before the namespace, as in Template:h:f. I moved all the template I found with name starting with Template:h:h to conformf to this new scheme. I also left the redircet from the old name. AnyFile 15:00, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC) Consider that if you do not call the language specific template but only the Template:h:h (as you should), everything should be updated automatically and the new language specif template (the ones with a space in the name) will be used. If you are using a language specific template directly the redirection will point to the new name template. AnyFile 15:22, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Proposal for H:f

I propose the following schedule for h:f

This can (should) be done now
- Keep Template:h:f as it is now, with the {{langs}} at the end
- Restore Template:hc as it was some time ago
- Delete langs form the language specific template (like Template:h:f_Help). If a langs parameter is present it is already printed by Template:h:f. I suppose that a language specifc template is never called directly. (if this is not true correct the call) -- (~~for what I can seen this condiction is already true~~ ... no, Template:Hc ja still has it)
- Make all lines in the help pages we are currently managing and modifing like {{h:f|langs=|enname=page_name_in_English}}
  - Please do not remove the langs parameter in such lines (but keep it empty)
  - Please leave old page that already use langs parameter to use old hc. (If you want to change them to h:f do thing in a way that the langs parameter is no more use)
Wait utill all page using h:f does not use langs paramenter anymore (check for this to be really true before doing this point)
- Remove langs insertion from Template:h:f
  - As before, keep Template:hc as it was some time ago
  - Please leave old page that already use langs parameter to use old hc. (If you want to change them to h:f do thing in a way that the langs parameter is no more use)
After having done the prevoius point
- Remove the langs paramenter from the help page trasforming {{h:f|langs=|enname=page_name_in_English}} in {{h:f|enname=page_name_in_English}}
  - Please do NOT do this thing before the previous point is done.
  - Take note that there is no hurry for doing this
  - Please leave old page that already use langs parameter to use old hc. (If you want to change them to h:f do thing in a way that the langs parameter is no more use)
Check that all help pages in the namespace we are modifing really use h:f, they do not use anymore hc and they not have the langs parameter. Correct the old fashion one.
Check that all help pages in all namespace really use h:f, they do not use anymore hc and they not have the langs parameter. Correct the old fashion one.

While in the previous list I repitetly said not to change hc to h:f, what I was meaning was not to do so if langs paramenter is still used. If it is not used anymore it can be changed anytime.

Instead of putting hc to its old content, we can also do as following: Let it became {{{h:f Help|enname=void}} where I have chosen the name void, but if you prefer a differnet word can be chosen. We need to pass something as the ennmae parameter, becouse it it used. We also need to create a template:H-langs:void (or the correct name, if void is not used but a differnet word). This template could be anything intelligent (for example an empty template, a sentence saying "please help in converting see Help:Help page footer templates, or what else)

AnyFile 13:33, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

For what concern documentation, like Help:MediaWiki help policy, we can act as the following (to avoid the problem of putting in tht documentation to use a dprecate parameter). Write the documentation as if we were already in the situation where {{h:f|enname=page_name_in_English}} should be used, but we put before this explanation a visible notice that said: "we are in transiction phase. If you see this note, please consult section xxx" and in this section saing that langs parameter should be inserted as empty parameter utnitll we are in the transiction phase.

AnyFile 13:39, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

One more thing to do is to look for page that link Template:H-langs:. This are page that specified an incorrect empty enname. AnyFile 21:06, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I fixed these.--Patrick 22:41, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have some problem s with Japaneese (since their pages are in Help template, the English one). I am going to treat them specially (instead of putting the template h:f I am going to put template h:f ヘルプ and later to move to the correct nemaspace. AnyFile 10:39, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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