Grants talk:Programs/Wikimedia Community Fund/Review/2024-25/CEECA

But, wait!

Wikimedia Statistics for Wikipedia in Serbian language in the second half of 2024 speak of a decline in all major indicators, which leads to the conclusion that Wikimedia does not have an essential community, and if the contribution of editors with privileges is excluded, which is not of an essential character, there may be 10 editors without privileged status who continuously contribute substantially to new contents and enriching the existing ones, so I think that the proposal on the level of material resources is very large, especially since it will be aimed at 20 persons classified as employees, management and editors with privileges. I think it's pointless to invest significant material resources in a project that doesn't actually have a core community of non-privileged editors. When it comes to investing funds in the community, I inevitably ask myself: Which community? Filipović Zoran (talk) 05:40, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Who we are: the community?

Wikipedia on serbian language have: а project that has been alive for 21 years, number of articles 695.923, registered users 386.754, active users 719 (people who made 1 to 5 edits per month), active editors 266 (people who made 5 or more edits per month), very active editors 40 (people making 100 or more edits), 5 employees, 15 administrators. Conclusion: approximately 20 very active non-privileged editors create 6,500 new articles per year; this is our: the community. Filipović Zoran (talk) 22:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@Filipović Zoran: I agree that active editors are important, and is certainly one group of people that can benefit from funding, for example through supporting workshops, edit-a-thons, and other events. However, there are other kinds of groups that can also benefit from funding who may not be active editors: readers, people curious about Wikimedia projects but know little about them, professional staff in cultural institutions, communities who are not well represented in Serbian Wikipedia or other Wikimedia projects, developers, and others. I agree it is good to think about which communities are benefitting from the investments from our funding programs, but I think the lens should be wider than just some definition of active contributors. I also think the notion of being "active" should be more flexible depending on the manner in which someone is actually oriented towards the Wikimedia movement. For example, a person who regularly participates in Wikipedia Asian Month, Wiki Loves Monuments, and maybe attends an occasional affiliate-led or Wikimedian-led workshop each year is also active, albeit in a different way than an active editor is. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 17:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@I JethroBT: The administrator Боки of the Serbian language Wikipedia on his user page: This user, in accordance with the Terms of Use of the Wikimedia Endowment, discloses that he is being paid by Ringier for contributing content to Wikipedia member(s); discussion on this topic, one interesting but deleted comment marked personal attack! I ask myself a rhetorical question as a thesis to consider: Since an admin Боки has found a way to make money without consequence by creating and editing articles, are the rest of us editors who edit for free just plain fools; or should we also start charging for our page creation and editing services and will we be blocked because we don't have privileged status? Filipović Zoran (talk) 20:19, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

@Filipović Zoran: I'm not exactly sure where to reply given that you've created three separate sections on similar topics, but hopefully this will be sufficient. Anyway, I don't think this is the right venue for these concerns. I don't have nearly enough context on this specific administrator or the situations below to be able to meaningfully evaluate them, nor is it clear to me how they are related to the chapter's funding. If there are concerns about paid editing beyond the Foundation's Terms of Use, local communities can set different policies on paid editing that are stricter or different than what is written there. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 18:23, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Also, in the interest of keeping our talk page policy consistent, I'm going to be refactoring your comments to Grants:Start or some other central space on the Grants namespace, as we do not specifically monitor these talk pages. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 17:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@I JethroBT (WMF): This is not a general grant consideration. I present here the observations that I have observed and which I have been an active witness of for a long period of time on sr.wiki with the conclusion that the budget of over 170,000 euros for the fiscal year will significantly encourage the further behavior of a certain group of editors with privileges, which will lead to a significant decline very active editors; so this is the right place for such topics: or if you are interested in learning about the end effects of investing significant material resources in projects read this Filipović Zoran (talk) 15:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

There are also a significant number of accounts that the admins debated on the admin panel about whether they were paid contributors and blocked them without substantial proof. Filipović Zoran (talk) 15:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh, wait!

Our community has:

• Due to the existence of an article — Nacionalizam, revizionizam i desničarenje or Šta sve možete pročitati na Vikipediji — published on the website of the weekly magazine Vreme where the administrators {Садко, Kizule, Ранко Николић, МареБГ} of the Serbian language wikipedia are mentioned in a very negative context, whose accounts are blocked on other language wikipedias, thereby significantly losing credibility and trust in the all administrators in the wider community of editors without privileges,
• The administrator Боки of the Serbian language Wikipedia on his user page: This user, in accordance with the Terms of Use of the Wikimedia Endowment, discloses that he is being paid by Ringier for contributing content to Wikipedia member(s); discussion on this topic, one interesting but deleted comment marked personal attack!
• Administrators نوفاك اتشمان and Ранко Николић who block editors to gain an advantage in discussions and votes,
• Administrators which do not post a notice on the main page about important issues so that editors can express their thoughts,
• Administrators Ранко Николић which deletes requests to remove administrative rights even under his personal, and نوفاك اتشمان informs EPIC account to ignore these requests and ignore them,
• Administrators Dungodung who hired FelixBot to perform a mass deletion of the Short Description template from a large number of articles (because he came to the conclusion that the template is garbage that needs to be eliminated — but the voting was done in a closed circle of administrators, 7 of whom voted without inviting the community to participate in the discussion and voting), Ранко Николић which rejects the request for the removal of the Bot flag reason: unfounded,
• Administrators Садко who writes accusatory, disparaging, humiliating tracts against seasoned editors with decades of editing experience, here; and Боки here,
• Administrators who delete articles from the GLAM program and then delete archived discussions older than six years,
• Administrators who block users for the reason of personal attacks and do not respond to the request for unblocking and stating the specific link where the personal attack was made,
• Administrators who do not allow editors to create a Talk Page as permitted by the Guidelines,

therefore, because of all the above, I believe that the budget of EUR 179,184 represents not only a pointless waste of significant material resources, but also an incentive for the continuation of this behavior. I am writing this out of sincere concern for the continuation of the project.

Nota Bene: I ask myself a rhetorical question as a thesis to consider: Since an admin Боки has found a way to make money without consequence by creating and editing articles, are the rest of us editors who edit for free just plain fools; or should we also start charging for our page creation and editing services and will we be blocked because we don't have privileged status? Filipović Zoran (talk) 20:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)