Grants talk:PEG/WM ID/Areca Vestiaria Bird Club - Discover Biodiversity of Sulawesi Photographs

Latest comment: 8 years ago by Ariefrahman in topic Requesting an extention

Comments MADe


Hey Arief, thanks for this updated grant request (the first one was not accepted).

I checked with my last comments on the former proposal and I'm happy to see my comments were taken into consideration, so I'm happy to approve this grant.

Before approving I'd like to see a "letter of collaboration" with the "AV Birder" organisation (and possibly of WM ID) MADe (talk) 08:57, 20 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi MADe. So to make sure we're on the same page, I'd like to make a few points clear. I am proposing on behalf of my club, which is AV Birder. I will lead my members in the execution of this proposed project. Right now, I don't quite understand to whom the "letter of collaboration" from AV Birder should be adressed to. Could you please explain more? Ariefrahman (talk) 07:35, 21 October 2013 (UTC)Reply
Hey Arief, this should not be a problem. At this moment, you're the only one of the organisation that I have seen on Meta. Could you give us a letter with the 'AV Birder' heading, signed by the board members, that they support this request. This is only administrative thing, so I pledged my support already MADe (talk) 07:48, 23 October 2013 (UTC)Reply
Thank you very much for your support. I am currently drafting the letter of collaboration addressed to Wikimedia Foundation. You may expect it to be emailed in two or three days. Ariefrahman (talk) 09:40, 23 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

I like the project. The only thing I'd like to see - would to have a declaration about minimal numbers of pictures/articles/species covered - as a way of measurement of the success/failure of the project. How many people are actually you expect to be involved in the project? Polimerek (talk) 11:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your input. Could you give an example of how I should revise my measure of success? The wildlife that we are targeting are dynamic individuals, and there's no guarantee we'll come across them at any given trip, so I'm finding it hard to visualize a more measurable goal.
As for the people involved, there are currently 8 people active in this project. Field work will be done by a team of 3-4 people, which will alternate between the 8 team members. All 8 team members will be involved in writing and developing the articles for Wikipedia and Wikispecies that will accompany the photographs of our exploration.Ariefrahman (talk) 09:40, 23 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for coming back with a reworked proposal; I'd definitely like to see it carried out in some form. I'd still like to see collaboration with WMID, and would also ask: is there something about the project that requires $2800 in camera gear? Will $2800 in gear make an important difference in results over $1000 in gear? The proposed gear set is definitely nice, but there are significantly cheaper options that are still quality cameras. Kevin (talk) 03:36, 23 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your interest in our activity. More than half of our proposed budget is directed to the purchase of a telephoto lens. That is the most crucial piece of equipment, since it is very hard to photograph wildlife from close range without scaring them off. There are cheaper lenses in the market, but these don't have the focal length necessary for photographing objects from long distances, particularly moving ones (i.e. wildlife). Trimming the budget any further is quite difficult.Ariefrahman (talk) 09:40, 23 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Also a welcome again and thank-you for the new Grant request. I also see that the lense is considerably cheaper than in the last request, even though it looks like it's the same one. Anyway, I am also interested in seeing a "Letter of Intent" from AV Birder. --Manuel Schneider(bla) (+/-) 10:29, 28 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

I'd like to take a decision by now. The support via Wikimedia Indonesia is great, I'd fully support this grant. But still there are at least two persons (Tony and me) who have asked for a Letter of Intent from AV Birder, at the same time the last contribution by Ariefrahman is from October 23rd, that's more than two weeks ago. I am unable to take a decision on this basis and non-responsivnes by the applicant. My suggestion is to give this a deadline until November 13th, if Ariefrahman is still inactive then we would close this request as witdhrawn. --Manuel Schneider(bla) (+/-) 09:21, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
Sorry for the late reply. The lens I'm requesting here is an old type without Vibration Reduction. However, I think that feature can be compensated with a good tripod. I've written a Letter of Collaboration to WMID, and they support my proposal with the terms ans conditions stated below. Should we also send a Letter of Collaboration directly to WMF? Ariefrahman (talk) 08:18, 10 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • I'm sorry if I've missed it previously, but have you approached WMIN explicitly about this? I don't think collaborating them is a necessity per se, but I would like to see them at least approached about it. I would also like it to be clear where the equipment will go once the grant is over/who will permanently own it. This is a two year long grant, but the equipment involved will last quite a bit longer than that. Kevin (talk) 02:06, 29 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

I like this project like Polimerek :) but I rate the Measures of success as very weak. --Packa (talk) 22:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)Reply

Wikimedia Indonesia Support to The Grant


Request for clarification


Thank you, Wikimedia Indonesia, for engaging with this proposal, and for agreeing to help realize this opportunity. Two quick questions:

  1. Most of the terms above seem good to me, but I am confused by the requirement that the applicant upload 600 pictures before receiving the camera. It was my understanding that the camera is needed to produce these photos, and is not a reward to be given post factum after a certain amount of photos have been contributed. Could you clarify? Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 00:51, 7 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
  2. We would be ready to make a decision once these questions are answered, but the actual date of disbursement (wiring the funds to WMID) would depend on how quickly the grant agreement is signed and how quickly we can get scanned proof of identity (required by US law), so is not completely up to us. Given that, it is conceivable (though unlikely), that, if approved, funds may not be in WMID's hands before Dec 20th. In that unlikely case, is the project endangered, or does WMID have sufficient reserves to advance the funds in that case (given a commitment from WMF to fund this)? Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 00:51, 7 November 2013 (UTC)Reply

On the matter of the individual's track record, having looked at the applicant's existing contributions on both Commons and IDWP, we are satisfied that he is a bona fide Wikimedian. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 00:51, 7 November 2013 (UTC)Reply

The reason we offered to help and agreed as partner on the grant was because both of WMF and AV Birder wrote to us. Since WMF thinks Arief is a bona fide wikimedian, then WMID is happy if WMF give the grant directly to the AV Birder/Arief Rahman. Therefore, terms and conditions above is only applied if Arief is under our supervision. We will withdraw from helping with the grant, and will put WMF entirely responsible for this grant successful outcome. Isabella Apriyana talk 08:04, 9 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
Meeting the requirement of 600 pictures before we receive the equipmeng is near impossible. The photographs of birds of Sulawesi is incomplete. I've tried searching the web, including Flickr that provides Creative Commons license and the results are few (I've uploaded some to Wikimedia Commons via Flickr and my photographs collection). Unfortunately the rest have copyrights and can't be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. However, we could start to create or edit biodiversity articles to fulfill the stated terms and conditions, after that (in March 2014, after we fulfill WMID's terms and condition and get the camera) we can start our explorations and add photos to the articles that we've started. Ariefrahman (talk) 09:23, 10 November 2013 (UTC)Reply

Minutes of WMID and WMF Conference Call


My comment


Thanks for the submission. In general, the project is fine and interesting to get my support as something which will really enlarge the number of content from the flora and fauna on the Sulawesi island, but the problem here is again the ownership-related issue that usually prevails as argument to oppose such requests. My only suggestion would be to consider the possibilities to borrow the needed equipment for the project. It doesn't mean that I oppose the grant request, but I'm afraid that this will end into the same group of not funded photograph projects because of the same reason. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:36, 25 November 2013 (UTC)Reply

Evaluation by the GAC


GAC Members who read the grant request without comments


GAC Members who approve this grant request

  1. MADe (talk) 07:48, 23 October 2013 (UTC), would like to see a proof of the participation of 'AV Birder'Reply
  2. There has been a great improvement from the earlier proposal. But as Asaf mentioned you should have the camera at the commencement of the program. -- Roel (talk) 13:23, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Reply

GAC Members who oppose this grant request


GAC Members who abstain from voting/comment




With the resolution of the old report by Wikimedia Indonesia, we are pleased to approve this grant as discussed above on this talk page. I have updated the main page to show the budget discussed above, and the grant funds will be wired to WMID ASAP.

I do hope Arief and WMID would still be able to hold the training as planned without too much interruption to Arief's school schedule. Please do let us know. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 23:27, 24 December 2013 (UTC)Reply

Options on remaining funds


Requesting an extention



Our project goal is to upload Sulawesi biodiversity photos every month from June 2014 to December 2015. For 18 months our project to collecting biodiversity pictures, there is 6 months that we couldn't collect pictures.
Unfortunately, Nikon lens for telephoto is fell and damaged by accident in December 2014 and repaired in March 2015. For individual reasons, I can't collect pictures in October - November 2015 due to completing my undergraduate thesis and I didnt get other poeple to collecting pictures.
Therefore, we would like to request an extension of project end date to June 2016.
Best wishes. Ariefrahman (talk) 11:50, 23 March 2016 (UTC)Reply

Hi Ariefrahman. Thank you for this update and I'm sorry to hear about the lens! The new end date of June 1, 206 is approved. Your final grant report will now be due July 31, 2016. Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 16:41, 23 March 2016 (UTC)Reply
Thank you.Ariefrahman (talk) 19:21, 23 March 2016 (UTC)Reply
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