Grants talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject Allies

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Supporting links etcEdit

I love this idea. Just thought I'd drop in a few links to some good resources for allies, good ally work I've seen done in the recent past, etc.

--Skud (WMF) (talk) 01:13, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


--Ocaasi (talk) 01:43, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Focusing on support group among men?Edit

Ping: Ocaasi. To say more per my comments endorsing your project:

The idea of women needing allies is solid. And the men who support them must be more solidly allied.
The problem is that more diffuse projects where this has been tried have been disrupted by and taken over by the most bullying - or subtly sabotaging - individuals. Two examples: En.Wikipedia Gender Gap task force (somewhat improved since the Arbitration) and En.Wikipedia Project Editor retention (where discussion of problems faced particularly by women and/or regarding incivility have been explictly rejected as not welcome).
Something like WIKIMEN AGAINST SEXISM or WIKIMEN SUPPORTING WOMEN EDITORS or whatever can help support women who want to oppose male bullies and their "boys will be boys" enablers who abuse women, whatever their excuses may be.
As an outspoken woman I have been insulted - subtly and explicitly - for seven years of editing by guys who didn't like my assumed or actual POV, and/or the fact that I was a woman who disagreed with them, reverted them, criticized them, and didn't do it in the most sensitive, respectful and good-mother/female admirer way. They repeatedly took me to noticeboards and even tried to get me site banned. The couple times sanctions were imposed they were so exaggerated for the often trumped up crime alleged, that others objected vehemently.
I know that I always appreciated it when male editors stood up for me by pointing out unfair or exaggerated or double standard criticism or sanctions based on the fact I am a woman. I also know that some of these guys often were subject to abuse and even sanction themselves soon after sticking up for me. Others might comment once, but then, like their silent brothers, decide it wasn't worth suffering abuse themselves and just keep quiet.
Far worse, is the fact that there are guys who just enjoy being "one of the boys" and supporting whatever "top dog" male abuser is going after a female editor. Thus the phrases "circle jerk" and "gang bang" have been applied to some groups of males in their behavior toward some women on Wikipedia sites. Thus I believe it particularly is the male supporters of abused women on Wikipedia who have to identify each other and be allies in support of us. Make this a more explicit part of your plan and you will really be on to something!
However, if you think you have a new approach that works and think I should make a separate proposal like I make above, do tell me quickly and I'll do a separate proposal, something in line with what other groups have done. (But first I'll share a few links with you to elaborate on the alternatives... give me a couple hours.) Carolmooredc (talk) 20:18, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Being a more literal minded person, it took a third reading for me to interpret correctly your statement: "Wikipedia's currently majority demographic". Now I see that actually is referring to the many guys who are most willing to be helpful to women and to other under-represented groups having problems. I hope you will decide to use more explicit language; I myself tend to go the overly explicit extreme. :-)
First, don't forget there is EN.Wikipedia Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias (of which the Gender Gap project is part) and its strengths and failures have to be looked at. Also the "Charting diversity" project at Meta. However, focusing in on the "problem demographic" and raising its consciousness is an extremely important project in its own right.
Anyway, here are some more resources to draw on. See the many listings at En.Wikipedia Gender Gap Task force Resources pages links. These are categorized under relevant media and academic articles, Wikimedia and en.Wikipedia Gender Gap action projects and related projects and writings. Also see this Refusing To Be a Man: Essays on sex and justice PDF of a book by an important male feminist.
Here are some more recent articles, including some that discuss how men can recognize the problems women have, which is helpful for becoming allies.
This is a great project and I hope you can get it going! Carolmooredc (talk) 00:38, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
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