[2007-05-20 13:20:15] <Cbrown1023> yeah
[2007-05-20 13:20:28] <GerardM-> but from my perspective only when the WMF is able to be responsive
[2007-05-20 13:20:33] -->| rhl (n=roberthl@wikimedia/Lcarsdata) has joined #wikimedia-fundraising
[2007-05-20 13:20:38] <--| rhl has left #wikimedia-fundraising
[2007-05-20 13:20:40] -->| rhl (n=roberthl@wikimedia/Lcarsdata) has joined #wikimedia-fundraising
[2007-05-20 13:20:46] -->| JWSchmidt (n=JWSurf@wikia/JWSchmidt) has joined #wikimedia-fundraising
[2007-05-20 13:21:19] <GerardM-> there would have more money from things I have been involved in when the grants coordinator replied to repeated queries
[2007-05-20 13:21:31] <GerardM-> now the WMF did get nothing
[2007-05-20 13:21:36] <Cbrown1023> do we still have a grants coordinator?
[2007-05-20 13:21:56] <GerardM-> we now have a business developer
[2007-05-20 13:22:08] <Cbrown1023> oh, yes, he takes that over now, but I doubt he's done any yet
[2007-05-20 13:22:15] <Cbrown1023> do we want this channel logged publically?
[2007-05-20 13:23:08] <GerardM-> well you can log it but I doubt if something profound will come out of it
[2007-05-20 13:23:46] <Cbrown1023> :)
[2007-05-20 13:23:52] <GerardM-> certainly the board has too much on their plate as it is.. they are volunteers remember .. having to listen to our ramblings is not my idea of doing somerhing fun
[2007-05-20 13:24:06] <Cbrown1023> yeah :)
[2007-05-20 13:24:16] <Cbrown1023> does anyone else have any ideas?
[2007-05-20 13:24:44] <GerardM-> do you have ideas ?
[2007-05-20 13:25:07] <rhl> We could start compiling a list of ideas on meta and marking the good points and bad points (not discussions since that would cause warring etc.)
[2007-05-20 13:25:21] <rhl> we could discuss it here.
[2007-05-20 13:25:24] <Cbrown1023> yeah
[2007-05-20 13:25:26] <rhl> let me start one
[2007-05-20 13:25:29] <Cbrown1023> k :)
[2007-05-20 13:25:35] <JWSchmidt> does the Foundation have anything like an existing policy or strategy for fund raising?
[2007-05-20 13:25:41] <rhl> shit http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_ideas
[2007-05-20 13:25:41] <geniice> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_ideas
[2007-05-20 13:25:53] <geniice> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia.com_draft
[2007-05-20 13:26:24] <rhl> maybe it would be better to set up a progressive fork of that page, it appears to be kind of all over the place.
[2007-05-20 13:26:30] <geniice> JWSchmidt but putting up a banner asking for donations and trying to get matching funding appears to be the current line of attack
[2007-05-20 13:26:47] <geniice> rhl only if the foundation will pay more than zero attention to it
[2007-05-20 13:27:33] <rhl> geniice: If we put a huge notice saying that discussion should occurr in here before ideas etc are added then I think it would be better.
[2007-05-20 13:27:39] <Cbrown1023> geniice: i would agree with you except members of the board set it up :)
[2007-05-20 13:30:39] <GerardM-> when we are to brainstorm, why bother straight away with possible straight jackets ..
[2007-05-20 13:30:42] <rhl> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_ideas_fork - now we just need to work out our current ideas.
[2007-05-20 13:30:55] <geniice> rhl only if the foundation comits to pay attention
[2007-05-20 13:30:56] <GerardM-> it is about ideas and THEN see if they are useful
[2007-05-20 13:31:01] >chanserv< op #wikimedia-fundraising
[2007-05-20 13:31:02] =-= Mode #wikimedia-fundraising +o Cbrown1023 by chanserv
[2007-05-20 13:31:07] * rhl hides
[2007-05-20 13:31:17] <Cbrown1023> Welcome to the Wikimedia Fundraising Channel | http://fundraising.wikimedia.org/ | Discuss possible ways to better raise money. | Note: May be logged for posterity, board meetings, and/or community discussion. | http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_ideas_fork
[2007-05-20 13:31:25] <rhl> yeah
[2007-05-20 13:31:30] <Cbrown1023> it's good?
[2007-05-20 13:31:30] <Cbrown1023> k
[2007-05-20 13:31:34] =-= Cbrown1023 has changed the topic to ``> Welcome to the Wikimedia Fundraising Channel | http://fundraising.wikimedia.org/ | Discuss possible ways to better raise money. | Note: May be logged for posterity, board meetings, and/or community discussion. | http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_ideas_fork''
[2007-05-20 13:31:35] <GerardM-> you have to be persuasive if you want the foundation to do anything
[2007-05-20 13:31:52] <Cbrown1023> *very* persuasive :)
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[2007-05-20 13:32:08] <GerardM-> if you only want to exert yourself when you know up front that you will succeed, do not bother
[2007-05-20 13:32:24] <--| Naxel has left #wikimedia-fundraising
[2007-05-20 13:32:50] <rhl> I am setting up some templates which can be used to better organise ideas (basically just + and - templates)
[2007-05-20 13:32:57] <Cbrown1023> k
[2007-05-20 13:33:05] -->| Majorly (n=Alex9891@wikimedia/Majorly) has joined #wikimedia-fundraising
[2007-05-20 13:33:11] <GerardM-> .. what is the substance of templates when we do not have ideas ?
[2007-05-20 13:33:31] <rhl> to be able to make our ideas happen (when we get ideas)
[2007-05-20 13:33:33] <JWSchmidt> "Wikimedia affiliate program for mirrors" at [[m:Fundraising ideas#Ideas from the mailing list during the last fundraising drive]], but what about the idea of Wikimedia having a Wikipedia fork that allows paid advertising?
[2007-05-20 13:33:59] <rhl> fork?
[2007-05-20 13:34:07] <Cbrown1023> that's a good idea
[2007-05-20 13:34:15] <Cbrown1023> rhl: like you have two versions of Wikipedia
[2007-05-20 13:34:20] <Cbrown1023> one with ads and one without
[2007-05-20 13:34:24] <rhl> oh,
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[2007-05-20 13:34:31] <Cbrown1023> they both have all the same content, just one has ads too
[2007-05-20 13:34:32] <rhl> we discussed that a while back in #wikimedia
[2007-05-20 13:34:36] <Cbrown1023> yeah
[2007-05-20 13:34:44] <rhl> the difficulty was what url should be used.
[2007-05-20 13:34:52] <JWSchmidt> fork "stable versions of Wikipedia articles, allow no editing at the fork, but allow ads that are related to the content
[2007-05-20 13:34:58] <geniice> it would only work at wikipedia.com
[2007-05-20 13:35:16] <geniice> anywhere else we would be up in a fair fight against answers.com and would lose
[2007-05-20 13:35:32] <Cbrown1023> :)
[2007-05-20 13:35:35] <rhl> we could withdraw the live feed from answers.com ;)
[2007-05-20 13:35:39] <Cbrown1023> we would totally put answers.com off the map
[2007-05-20 13:36:11] * Arria is working, but will take a peek at the channel from time to time
[2007-05-20 13:36:24] * Cbrown1023 appreciates it
[2007-05-20 13:36:29] <JWSchmidt> if "Wikipedia" is a great "brand", then a wikipdia.com fork should get traffic
[2007-05-20 13:36:36] <Cbrown1023> yeah
[2007-05-20 13:36:54] <Cbrown1023> why am I still ops?
[2007-05-20 13:36:58] =-= Mode #wikimedia-fundraising -o Cbrown1023 by Cbrown1023
[2007-05-20 13:37:10] <Cbrown1023> JWSchmidt: but will our years like the change?
[2007-05-20 13:37:19] <Cbrown1023> and who determines "stable" versions
[2007-05-20 13:37:22] <JWSchmidt> years?
[2007-05-20 13:37:36] <GerardM-> How about an icon of "your search engine" on every page.. when you click on it, you go to either the Google, Yahoo, MSC search engine
[2007-05-20 13:37:50] <GerardM-> we get paid for the referrals
[2007-05-20 13:37:52] <Cbrown1023> JWS: oops... users... don't know how I messed htat up :)
[2007-05-20 13:37:59] <geniice> GerardM- no not free
[2007-05-20 13:38:05] <geniice> GerardM- also that is advertiseing
[2007-05-20 13:38:19] <GerardM-> No it is providing a service to our users
[2007-05-20 13:38:30] <GerardM-> and Google et al pay for the privilege
[2007-05-20 13:38:42] <JWSchmidt> the claim has been made that some people "like useful ads" when they surf the internet
[2007-05-20 13:38:49] <geniice> what about a search engin that wont pay
[2007-05-20 13:38:59] <geniice> JWSchmidt yeah buy people trying to sell you ads
[2007-05-20 13:39:00] <GerardM-> it is not advertising because WHAT search engine could be configurable in the user preferences
[2007-05-20 13:39:22] <rhl> GerardM-: We could use adsense to create one that we get paid from when people click the adverts.
[2007-05-20 13:39:29] <Cbrown1023> JWSchmidt: so... we just announce in a press release that we are allowing adds on certain pages the businesses flock to us?
[2007-05-20 13:39:31] <geniice> GerardM- most people will pic the default (this was after all netscape's business modle)
[2007-05-20 13:39:50] <GerardM-> when a search engine does not pay they are not available for selection
[2007-05-20 13:40:27] <JWSchmidt> people who do not like ads go to wikipedia.org (where there are never any ads) and people who want stable versions (maybe they do not want to see image vandalism) go to wikipedia.com
[2007-05-20 13:40:35] <GerardM-> So when it is the search engine that has been good to us ..
[2007-05-20 13:40:48] <geniice> GerardM- payed palcement so add no I think not
[2007-05-20 13:40:55] <GerardM-> or who is a specialist in a particular language
[2007-05-20 13:41:09] <GerardM-> Geniice, we are talking about ways to get money
[2007-05-20 13:41:28] <geniice> yes
[2007-05-20 13:41:39] <GerardM-> this is plenty discreet, configurable and it will get us the money we need
[2007-05-20 13:41:42] <JWSchmidt> "allowing adds on certain pages the businesses flock to us?" <-- I have no understanding of internet advertising...you might just start with google ads on every page
[2007-05-20 13:41:55] <rhl> no google
[2007-05-20 13:42:00] <geniice> and I'm shoot ddown the ones that compramise fundimental community principles
[2007-05-20 13:42:00] <GerardM-> also this is not an add, it is a link to a service
[2007-05-20 13:42:01] <rhl> google are evil in our situation
[2007-05-20 13:42:01] <geniice> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia.com_draft
[2007-05-20 13:42:29] <geniice> Guys GerardM- appears to be an seo spamer or at least he sounds like one
[2007-05-20 13:42:39] <GerardM-> why is google evil ? why is any search engine a priori evil ?
[2007-05-20 13:42:44] <GerardM-> owhat is sea
[2007-05-20 13:42:53] <rhl> I never said google was evil.
[2007-05-20 13:42:56] <GerardM-> seo ?
[2007-05-20 13:43:06] <rhl> I said that in our situation we shouldn't use them for adverts.
[2007-05-20 13:43:10] <rhl> *meant
[2007-05-20 13:43:13] <geniice> SEO is the nice name for the people who keep spaming us with links
[2007-05-20 13:43:28] === #wikimedia-fundraising You can't join that many channels
[2007-05-20 13:43:33] <rhl> "Search Engine Optimization"
[2007-05-20 13:43:45] <GerardM-> geniice how does this get us spam ? there is one icon.. that is all
[2007-05-20 13:44:08] <geniice> GerardM- paid for. it's an ad
[2007-05-20 13:44:09] <Cbrown1023> we would need to set up a committee to decided on what links to add where
[2007-05-20 13:44:35] <rhl> geniice: So making wikipedia.com a single page like in your draft is an idea?
[2007-05-20 13:44:37] <GerardM-> what was the point again for this channel ?
[2007-05-20 13:44:48] <GerardM-> what is the title of this channel ?
[2007-05-20 13:44:56] <rhl> #wikimedia-fundraising
[2007-05-20 13:44:58] <geniice> rhl not mine and yes it was one aproach suggested
[2007-05-20 13:45:07] <rhl> shall I add it to the list?
[2007-05-20 13:45:13] <GerardM-> we get paid.. our users get a better service
[2007-05-20 13:45:26] <Cbrown1023> yeah
[2007-05-20 13:45:31] <GerardM-> we do not get advertisements on our pages
[2007-05-20 13:45:32] <geniice> cbrown1023 you just suggested setting up a committee. listen to yourself
[2007-05-20 13:45:45] <rhl> Cbrown1023: to me?
[2007-05-20 13:45:52] <GerardM-> by the way an advertisement gets you to buy a product
[2007-05-20 13:46:11] <geniice> GerardM- yes in this case the product is adwords and the money is clicks
[2007-05-20 13:46:14] <Cbrown1023> :)
[2007-05-20 13:46:31] <rhl> Cbrown1023: were you talking to me?
[2007-05-20 13:46:40] <Cbrown1023> I was just babbling
[2007-05-20 13:46:49] <GerardM-> this is to find information on the web by clicking on a link that gets you to your favourite search engine
[2007-05-20 13:47:23] <geniice> GerardM- no because my favourite search engine won't pay the money to have thier link there
[2007-05-20 13:47:30] <GerardM-> geniice, it is the way Mozilla foundation gets some 30 million dollars
[2007-05-20 13:47:49] <GerardM-> per anum
[2007-05-20 13:47:50] <geniice> GerardM- I know
[2007-05-20 13:48:39] <GerardM-> does your favourite search engine make no money ?
[2007-05-20 13:49:07] <GerardM-> and by the way as it can be configured, it has not been said that it could not be optional ..
[2007-05-20 13:49:07] <geniice> no it just choses not to pay
[2007-05-20 13:49:19] <geniice> GerardM- optional is meaningless
[2007-05-20 13:49:28] <geniice> GerardM- the default will rule
[2007-05-20 13:49:32] <GerardM-> so ?
[2007-05-20 13:49:41] <GerardM-> that is how we make money then
[2007-05-20 13:49:55] <geniice> buy selling out? I think not
[2007-05-20 13:50:09] <GerardM-> what country are you from ?
[2007-05-20 13:50:17] <geniice> and when google withdraw because thery don't like [[google]] what will you do?
[2007-05-20 13:50:35] <GerardM-> :) they are more clever than that
[2007-05-20 13:50:48] <geniice> no it would be a logical move
[2007-05-20 13:50:50] <rhl> updated: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_ideas_fork
[2007-05-20 13:50:52] <GerardM-> be happy with all the money I made so far
[2007-05-20 13:50:59] <geniice> GerardM- 50c?
[2007-05-20 13:51:26] <geniice> because that was how long it took google to release you had just given them a massive amount of leverage over the wikipedia
[2007-05-20 13:51:36] <GerardM-> right .. any other novel ideas that will be shot down because they make money ?
[2007-05-20 13:51:50] <geniice> that idea wasn't novel
[2007-05-20 13:52:08] <GerardM-> actually I have not heard about it before
[2007-05-20 13:52:22] <geniice> you missed the fuss yesterday then
[2007-05-20 13:52:51] <geniice> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Googlesearch&diff=132092576&oldid=109054873
[2007-05-20 13:52:56] <geniice> amoung other things
[2007-05-20 13:53:33] <geniice> adverts are the fallback option
[2007-05-20 13:53:52] <geniice> the oh dear we are about to run out of money option
[2007-05-20 13:54:05] <geniice> untill we reach that point we should make no moves towards them
[2007-05-20 13:54:07] <GerardM-> again this is not advertisement
[2007-05-20 13:54:12] <Cbrown1023> updated with the second idea we talked about: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_ideas_fork
[2007-05-20 13:54:12] <geniice> yes it is
[2007-05-20 13:54:21] <GerardM-> we are operating under our budget
[2007-05-20 13:54:34] <GerardM-> so do not think we have sufficient \
[2007-05-20 13:55:12] <GerardM-> again, geniice what country are you from ?
[2007-05-20 13:55:18] <geniice> UK
[2007-05-20 13:55:22] <GerardM-> ok
[2007-05-20 13:55:25] <GerardM-> surprised