File talk:Int wikilogo jtvisona.png

Just a concept design.

I've have the original on 140# paper. I've have the master digital image in PSD. It's completely flexible.

I thought the logotype would offer some of the following benefits:

• Colorful, but not pastels, or neons.
• Very graphic, as opposed to textual.
• Rugged, sylized feeling.
• Suggests exploration.
• Encompasses the Wikipedian philosophy: "Create. Share. Discuss. Revise."
• Original artwork. No derivative copyright issues.

Jtvisona 20:28 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

W

Very nice but it contains the latin letter "W" which is not used in all languages. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fonzy~metawiki (talk) 09:05, 9 August 2003 (UTC)

Facts

While I take your point, Fonzy, let me point out a few facts.

• Though it is not used in ALL languages, it is used in many of them. Even languages like Chinese, Korean, and Japanese have Roman-letter transliteration systems because let's face it. 26 letters is better than 30,000+ characters. The Romans left quite a legacy. The 'W' is used in North America, South America, Europe, Australia, Africa, and Antarctica almost exclusively, while Asia which has a bulk of Earth's population uses it in their language if not in a transliteration system. Frankly, the 'W' is world-recognizable.
• English dominates the globe. That simple. It is the international maritime and airtime languages. It is spoken extensively on every content. The English language has more words than most of it's Indo-European cousins, if not all of them, and is only outstripped in speakers of languages of superpopulated countries like India, Pakistan, and China, though it is obvious that such countries teach and learn massive amounts of English. French is the only other truly international language, (ignoring Esperanto :), and it contains a 'W' too!
• This site is a site that depends on letters! To me, it is silly to forsake the representation of letters in a logotype that represents a massive effort to assemble letters.
• While I understand the drive to avoid cultural bias, let's face some facts. The machines are kept in Florida, are they not? The vast entries are essentially English, are they not? What is the percentage of all other (mostly if not all using 'W') languages to English? I'm not trying to piss people off, but what's the difference if the logo contains some letter from the language of the peoples who have put in all this sweat equity over the first two years? If at some point down the road, those whose entries without 'W' in their languages or transliteration schemes vastly outnumber those whose do, then the logotype can be altered substitutin, say, a globe.
• You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.

Jtvisona 16:18 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)

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Its not just me that thinks it, other logos with "W"s in them have had the same comment. -fonzy — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fonzy~metawiki (talk) 17:08, 9 August 2003 (UTC)

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So what you're saying, Fonzy, is that essentially, you have no good argument for the exclusion of 'W', so instead of devise one, you'll just fall back on the rational that everybody else is thinking it too. Please see Appeal to Popularity, aka the Bandwagon Fallacy. Jtvisona 00:29, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I wasn't arguing about anything, I was just saying that not everyone likes including "W" because its not used in evrey alpahabet. Esperanto calls Wikipedia, Vikipedio where a "W" would IMO look sily. I was just expressing my opinion but you seem to have taken it the wrong way. I am sorry if i offendd you. -fonzy — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fonzy~metawiki (talk) 08:48, 11 August 2003 (UTC)

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I object to the W, too — on the grounds that it keeps making me think I'm facing West. :) Love the graphic, though; very artistic!

// Stygian — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stygian (talk) 08:53, 11 August 2003 (UTC)

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The Colors and logo and great, but...the English writing on the logo makes it instantly not international. Just because "English dominates the globe" is no reason to incude it. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.64.215.95 (talk) 09:10, 11 August 2003 (UTC)

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Well, I'm certainly not offended! :) I'm argumentative, that's all. It seems to me that if English is the next best thing to a universal language (which it clearly is as it is spoken naturally or otherwise by sizable numbers in almost every country on the planet), then it makes sense to include it as a part of a symbol that represents the organization. It also seems that many of you arrive at a different conclusion through a process of reasoning I don't quite understand, frankly. I'm guessing it's something along the lines that we should use no symbol of letter or number (after all none are universal) so the image should strictly remain devoid of symbolism. This flummoxes me somewhat as the intent of a logotype is to symbolize something. If I include an owl (a traditional Greek symbol of wisdom) shall my logo not be accepted because there are no owls in Ulan Bator? Or perhaps in Micronesia, the owl represent evil? However, in light that this is a democratic contest, I appeal to the people! What in my design would be superior? I'm definitely not digging the ant-thing. A globe? A flame? An alien? hahaha. 1's and 0's seems biased as not every country uses the Indo-Arabic number system, and certainly most people do not use binary. Whatcha think?

en:jtvisona 03:14, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)

wow ;-)

No mather of "W" or not, I just have to say: WOW! Fantasy 07:18, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Danke, oder grazie. Whichever you use. 12.207.166.232 02:26, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Bitte, gern geschehen / Di niente ;-) Fantasy 23:12, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

More about W... and the motto

Well... it's true that the letter W isn't used by all languages, because not every language is written in the Roman alphabet. In some languages it's only used in loanwords, like in Spanish. But anyway, I mostly agree with you. The Roman alphabet is nearly everywhere, and it's far more widespread than any other alphabet, the same as the Arabic numerals are the most common of all systems of numeration, so a little cultural bias in this sense may not be that bad, IMHO.
However, if this logo is to be used all around the globe, there should be many different versions with the motto "Create. Share. Discuss. Revise." translated into every language used in Wikipedia... don't you think?
Sabbut 17:03, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Translating the Motto

Sure, Sabbut, that makes sense. As long as I don't have to do the translating!

Jtvisona 05:30, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)