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Requests for comment/Massive sysop abuse in Chechen Wikipedia

< Requests for comment

The following request for comments is closed. Consensus is clear at this RFC for the following actions:

  1. Removal of sysop and bureaucrat rights from all current holders of these rights.
  2. Anyone wishing to have sysop rights must request it via the local process and receive sufficient support (which will be reviewed by the granting Steward) via a fair and open discussion
  3. Until the community has demonstrated sufficient size and effective process, new Bureaucrats will not be created
  4. Initially all sysop rights will be granted on a temporary basis
  5. Until new sysops are elected, Global Sysops and Stewards will manage administrator tasks on cewiki as they do for other projects without active administrators
  6. All users blocked in the last 6 months (approximately) will have their block reviewed. With the exception of obvious spam and vandalism only accounts, it is expected that all blocks will be removed
Actions detailed above will begin to be implemented immediately. Those who have been blocked, please be patient as the review of blocks will take time QuiteUnusual (talk) 18:54, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We appeal to review the situation in the Chechen section of Wikipedia. We ask you to examine administrators’ actions, users who continue pushing their marginal point of view on the project pages and technically blocking any attempts to neutralize those articles, templates, etc. This is the second request about the situation in this section of Wikipedia, the previous one was here (some actions are also mentioned in the following request).

The situation in the Chechen Wikipedia at this moment has gone very bad. At the beginning of 2013, user Дагиров Умар (hereinafter Dagirov Umar) requested the permission of bureaucrat at the Ce-WP (this page was completely deleted by administrator Kade). He sent out invitations via e-mail to the users of the Wikipedia inviting them to vote (not for or against, just to participate in the process of voting). This was a mistake, and that Bureaucrat access was rejected. Dagirov Umar asked to close this request in favor of request of administrator permission, in this time without canvassing. This action was supported by the stewards.

However, on March 11, 2013 current administrators came to the Chechen Wikipedia - most of them did not make edits for months. Those users (Dagger, Nohcho, Sasan700, Kade) started blaming him for vandalism (which according to their words. consisted of uploading porn pictures into the wiki, and that was stated without any proof or evidence). Another accusation of the kind was his "ignorance" in Chechen language. At this moment there were more than 10 votes in favour and none against. On 12 March, 2013 user Kade deleted Umar's request with 13 pro and 2 oppose votes (Honestly speaking, user Dagger tried to oppose this request by the rules, but Nohcho and Kade decided to go another way) and blocked Requests for adminship page for all except sysops. Also, Umar was banned permanently by Dagger. After the warning on his TP that ban was removed and the next day Kade banned Umar once again. The reason provided was "False accusations" - Umar suggested that offensive profile at LiveJournal with his photo and inscription where it was stated that he is homosexual - could have been created by those current administrators of Chechen Wikipedia. Interesting, that Kade didn't block Sasan700 and others who stated that Umar "uploaded porn photos".

Also, Kade completely deleted the following pages: Requests for bureaucratship, Permissions withdrawal requests. The last one was created in the compliance with recommendations of the Steward Billinghurst.

Many times the current Ce-WP administrators threatened Umar and insulted him (see below). Dagirov Umar is the main author of more than 800 articles in Russian Wikipedia, he creates a lot of useful articles and templates about Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia etc., articles that can be read by millions of people who are acquainted with Russian language. He has never been noticed in vandalising the Russian Wikipedia. The only claim against him was about his language mistakes. But this is not the crime. His native language is Chechen. We may not assess his actual level of writing objectively, but he does understand and can speak Russian language, this is the fact that even those sysops do not deny.

We also want to tell about another thing. Because of the content of some articles, Chechen Wikipedia may be included in Federal List of Extremist Materials in Russia. Statements about independent country of Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, Ichkerian flags on the Main page, unconcealed abuses of Akhmad Kadyrov in "encyclopedic article" about him etc. can become the reason of IP-blocking of all Wikipedia in Russia. We do not want to lose the ability to read and edit the Russian, English, Spanish, Portuguese and many other sections of Wikipedia because of a bunch of violators from the Chechen Wikipedia.

Background edit

In order to make it easier to understand the problem, we have collected a little historical background. Chechens are an ethnic minority living primarily in Russia's North Caucasus region. They speak in Chechen language and almost all of them also know Russian language. Over the past twenty years this nation has experienced two wars, several waves of emigration, and so on. Therefore it is very important to understand the history associated with these people.

Post-Soviet history edit

Following the Soviet collapse, in 8 June, 1991, separatists in the newly formed Republic of Chechnya (part of Russian Federation) started an independence movement called the All-National Congress of the Chechen People. By October 1, 1991 the Chechen-Ingush ASSR finally disbanded on two separate republics - Ingushetia and self-proclaimed independent Chechnya. Russian President Boris Yeltsin opposed Chechen independence, arguing that Chechnya was an integral part of Russia. From 1994 to 1996, Russia fought Chechen guerillas in the First Chechen War. In 1993 "Chechen Republic Noxçiyçö" was renamed to Chechen Republic of Ichkeria (this name was used until the return of Chechnya to the Russia).

On May 12, 1997, the presidents of Russia and Chechnya, Boris Yeltsin and Aslan Maskhadov, met at the Kremlin to sign the final version of the peace treaty. The war finished with the signing on Khasavyurt Accord. Note, that according to the U.S. State Department, the Islamic International Peacekeeping Brigade (IIPB) is the primary channel for Islamic funding of the Chechen guerrillas, in part through links to Al-Qaeda-related financiers on the Arabian Peninsula. Russian troops were withdrawn from the Chechnya where (pseudo)-Sharia form of government was established. Political violence and religious extremism, based on "Wahhabism", was rife here. Chechnya became de-facto an independent state.

But in August 1999, Chechen militants invaded the neighboring Russian republic of Dagestan to support the local separatist movement. The following month five bombs exploded in Russia over a ten-day period, killing almost three hundred civilians. This was the beginning of Second Chechen War resulting in total crushing of the terrorist regime and Chechen Republic of Ichkeria as independent state. Modern Chechen Republic was formed. March 23, 2003 - Constitution of the Chechen Republic was accepted in the referendum. The former separatist religious leader (mufti) Akhmad Kadyrov, looked upon as a traitor by many separatists, was elected as president with 83% of the votes in an internationally monitored election on October 5, 2003. He had been murdered in 2004 and since 2005 Ramzan Kadyrov (son of Akhmad Kadyrov) has become the caretaker of prime minister of Chechnya, and in 2007 he was appointed as a new president.

Since the end of the second war Chechen separatist activity has diminished, and the July 2006 death of separatist leader Shamil Basayev seems to have stifled the movement. Since 2008, however, violence has markedly increased in the North Caucasus, according to a report by the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Incidents of violence rose from 795 in 2008 to 1,100 in 2009, and suicide bombings quadrupled in 2009, the majority of which occurred in Chechnya.

10 October, 2007, the President of Ichkeria Dokka Umarov declared that he had renamed the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria to Vilayat Noxc̈iyc̈ó and converted it into a province of the much larger Caucasus Emirate, with himself as Emir. This change has been widely rejected by some members of the former Chechen government-in-exile (Akhmed Zakayev and others). De-facto, from 2007 Chechen Republic of Ichkeria has ceased to exist, even as the government-in-exile.

Sources for reading: cfr.org, theatlanticwire.com, time.com and so on.

International recognition edit

Officially, the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria was not recognized by any country in the world. However, it was partly recognized by the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (it was unrecognized country) and by the Georgian government in exile of Zviad Gamsakhurdia. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan was destroyed in 2001, and Gamsakhurdia died in 1993.

Some representatives of Ichkeria, however, had existed in more than ten countries, but most of them were closed in the early of 2000s.

The maintenance of myth that the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria still exists and it is the only legitimate government in Chechnya is at least very wrong. It is something like if somebody in Pashto Wikipedia would the flag of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and replace the article about Afghanistan to the redirect to historic Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

Getting of permissions in Ce-WP edit

At the present moment there are 7 sysops in Chechen Wikipedia and 5 of them also have bureaucrat permissions. It is very unclear how exactly most of them have these permissions. As we think, almost all of them get their permissions without discussions of the community on specific pages.

Girdi (Ice201) edit

Created on 16 October 2006 at 00:28

Mega programmer edit

Created on 24 December 2006 at 01:24

  • Local request (deleted)
  • 20:43, 22 March 2007 Girdi (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for Декъашхо:Mega programmer from (none) to administrator
  • 18:08, 15 May 2007 Girdi (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for Декъашхо:Mega programmer from administrator to administrator and bureaucrat
  • Total edits 772

Kade edit

Created on 5 January 2007 at 17:23

  • 04:20, 7 April 2007 Girdi (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for Декъашхо:Kade from (none) to administrator
  • 18:58, 31 May 2008 Girdi (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for Декъашхо:Kade from administrator to administrator and bureaucrat
  • Total edits 211

Shatoidil edit

Created on 14 May 2007 at 14:30

  • 18:51, 5 January 2009 Mega programmer (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for Декъашхо:Shatoidil from (none) to administrator
  • Total edits 12
  • Last edit 2008-12-24 10:38 (ce.wikipedia.org)

Nohcho edit

  • Created on 10 March 2010 at 16:00
  • 09:42, 13 June 2010 Kade (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for Декъашхо:Nohcho from (none) to bot, administrator, bureaucrat and IP block exempt
  • 10:53, 13 June 2010 Sasan700 (Talk | contribs) renamed user Sasan to Nohcho (100 edits. Reason:)
  • Total edits 106

Sasan700 edit

Created on 16 April 2010 at 13:36

Dagger edit

Created on 23 April 2007 at 00:48

  • 14:26, 28 December 2010 Sasan700 (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for Декъашхо:Dagger from (none) to administrator (Baq́on bah́an iza bolh ba luuş hilar du.)
  • Total edits 468

Violations of the fundamental rules, with sysop permissions edit

Kade edit

Sasan700 edit

Dagger edit

Violations connected with long-term blocks edit

  • See block log of Dagirov Umar. Blocking of Dagirov Umar. Kade, Dagger, Sasan700, Megaprogrammer - all of them talking about the insufficient language ability of Umar and also they blame him for vandalism with porn photos. An anonymous user posted photos in January, 2012 (98.88.75.173) and vandalized the project. Also, in September, 2012 (69.15.233.98) in the article about the first President of Chechnya Dzhokhar Dudayev. IP location of each address shows that it was some user from the United States, Georgia state. Umar Dagirov never was in the USA at least because he has no the international passport (see: en:Russian passport) and, as a consequence, the American Visa. It may be personal information, so we'll stop here. At any time, each Steward can go to the Embassy of the United States and request the needful information. Note: any personal information, including letter of verification from Russian Interior Ministry about Umar Dagirov's international passport (its absence), can be given to stewards via E-mail, by request.
  • Blocking of user Soul Train. Soul Train is the Administrator of Lezgi Wikipedia, he just canceled edits of user Lezgistxa who put in the article about Lezgi Language the latin alphabet. This is mystification, because Lezgi writing system based only on Cyrillic script. Lezgistxa was permanently banned in Lezgi Wikipedia by another administrators of Lezgi descent, because of his mystifications, edit wars, impolite behavior and so on. Banned for edit war for 6 months without the right to edit his own Talk Page (as Saint Johann).

Violations of the fundamental rules, without sysop permissions edit

Threats against Dagirov Umar edit

Хьажа хlай газа хьо ма йар йолу! Аса хьай де тlян д1адохуьтур ду хьун ахьа кхи нохчийн байракх кху чура д1айакхахь, йа гlаскхашна бохкабелчера байракх тохахь! хьа хlу гlулкх ду? хьуна йа нохчийн маттахь язда ца хаьа! хьо гlаскхий безаш даладолуш зуд ду! хьай вархlа де тlян далларг ма бе кху чохь бид... борша доцу хьоза.
Я сан дийцаре аг1онан чохь кхи хийцамаш ма бе, ахьа бина болу бид гуш lаш вар со, со хьуна тlекхочур вац мет хьуна? хьо зуд мичахь lашду хиан суна, ахьа кхучура когаш ца бахь аса доца дуьцур ду хьеца!Sasan700(A,Д) 22:45, 27 нажи бутт 2012 (UTC).

Translate from Chechen language (original lexicon saved):

Look here, you, real goat! I'll shove your father's dick to your (? - not finnished, comment) if you will remove the real Chechen flag or if you will place the flag of traitors here (the flag of these who sold out to the Russians)! What's your deal? Are you a bitch who's in love with Russian? (I want that) you'll be shoved by all the dicks of your ancestors of seven generations; don't do this shit here... You are not the man.

And do not write on my talk page, I saw this shit that you did here, do you think I do not get you in real life? I found where you live, bitch, if you will not vamoose from there, our talk in real life will be very short.

Dagirov Umar's talk page, restored TP, with no old diffs, but stewars can see it. (Коьрта агlона лакхен борз) section

Blocking of ability to articles neutralization edit

Total anarchy in copyright edit

There were just 6 examples, more you can find simply in the list of Big pages. In fact, almost all Chechen Wikipedia is the one big copy-paste (and mystification too, see below). Thanks to Sasan700 and his friends.

Other abuses edit

Болх

Нохчийн Википедия кхоьллина Нохчийн маттахь яздан. Нохчийн маттахь яздан хууш воцучо беш болу болх зенехь бу, хlунда аьлчи, шена яздан хууш доцуш, бе-башха доцуш элпаш чу деттарах цунох яззам хуьлуш бац.
Кхин цхьа хlума эра ду ас. Ша гlо дан лууш волчо гlо дан деза, амма кху чохь Нохчийн къоман мостагlий хестош, царах яздарш, Турпалхой сийсаз бар, Нохчийн Пачхьалкх Ичкерийн доьхьал яззамаш, чу йоьттийтар яц.

Translation: Work
Chechen Wikipedia was created for writing the articles in Chechen language. Person who writes without knowing how to write in the Chechen language, makes the harm, because he don't know (?) he writes some letters, not words.

And one more thing. If somebody wants to help, he can do it, but he can't write here the articles that encourage the enemies of Chechen people and humiliate our heroes, we will not allow to write the articles against Chechen Republic Ichkeria.

  • Mystifications. All of Sasan700 ideas, that he tried to put in the articles in Russian Wikipedia (see below), were brilliantly realize in its bridgehead, Chechen Wikipedia.
    For example, article СалоцӀе (Sun)

Салоцlе — Са - серло, Ло - луш, Цlе - цlе, (оьрсийн маттахь - солнце олу, с чеченского Салоцlе., Са - свет, Ло - даёт, Цlе - огонь), амма нохчийн маттахь "Салоцlе" олу кхин "Малх" олу. Translation: Sun (Salots'e) — Sa - serlo (light), Lo - lush (giving, to give), Цlе - ts'e (fire), (Russian - Solntse speaking, from Chechen Salots'e., Sa - light, Lo - Give, Ts'e - fire), also in Chechen language it is speaking "Salots'e" or "Malkh".

In fact, the only word for Sun in Chechen language is the word "Malkh" (малх):

со́лнц||е с [сон-] малх; ~е взошло́ малх схьакхетта; сиде́ть на ~е маьлхехь Iан; ориенти́роваться по ~у маьлхаца хьесап дан; встать до ~а малх кхетале хьалагIатта

Russian-Chechen dictionaries:

  • Джамалханов 3. д., Алироев И. Ю. Словарь правописания литературного чеченского языка.—Грозный: Книга, 1991
  • Чеченско-русский словарь / РАН. Ин-т языкознания. Чеченская акад. наук; сост проф. И.Ю. Алироев, отв. ред. д-р филол. наук З.Х. Хамидова — М.: Асадеггиа, 2005. — 384 с
  • «Русско-чеченский словарь» / «Оьрсийн-нохчийн словарь». А.Т. Карасаев, А.Г. Мациев, Москва, 1978

Abuses in other sections of Wikipedia edit

Sasan700 edit

  • Russian Wikipedia:
    Sasan700 is known in Russian Wikipedia basically for his unscientific theories which he tried to put in the articles. According to Sasan700, such terms as Encyclopaedia, Chemistry etc. - all of them are terms from Chechen (not Latin or Ancient Greek) language. Here are some examples:
    Russian version of article about Atom:

Atom — in Chechen language means Atom - can't break up. At, Ata, Ato - breaking up, Ma, M - Can't. So this is not Greek term, even greeks take their ἄτομος from Chechen - atm - can't break up! Atom is exactly the Chechen term! You can speak what do you want, but this term that uses all over the World Atom is the Chechen language's term! Sasan700 15:33, 27 November 2010 (UTC) (diff)

  • Russian version of the article about Chemistry

    Chemistry — ({{lang-ce|''Хьими''}} — mash up <ref>[//ce.wikipedia.org/wiki/Хьимийа Хьимийа]</ref>) (diff) Note: Хьими ~ Kh'imi, Хьимийа ~ Kh'imij'a

    He was blocked repeatedly for insults, threats, aggression, and unethical behavior in the Russian Wikipedia. He was banned for edit wars for 1 day, then permanently. After his apologies this blocking has been lifted (See Journal).

There are many mystifications made by him:

And abuses of the other kind:

«Chechnya is not a part of the Russian Federation, never was and never will be! Write it on your forehead, goat!» Sasan700 13:37, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

  • User page: «I perfectly speak in these languages: 1) Noxçiy mott (Chechen) - spoken by Prophet Adam and Noah (Noya) с.а.) 2) English, 3) Dutch, 4) Arab, 5) Russian, 6) Romanian, 7) Ukrainian, 8) Turkish, 9) Azerbajan, 10) Greek, 11) Sumerian, 12) Akkadian, 13) German, 14) Hebrew, 15) French languages, I also learn additional languages.»

Demands edit

  1. Clean slate in removing all bureaucrats - this section is still very small, and also there were assigning permissions with bypasses of procedures.
  2. Clean slate in removing all sysops for the following reasons: long-term inactivity; lack of administrative action; violation of the basic rules (w:Wikipedia:Five pillars) including with using of sysop permissions; violation of the basic principles of the project.
    1. Girdi - Last edit 28 November 2010
    2. Shatoidil - Last edit 24 December 2008
    3. Nohcho [1] [2]
    4. Dagger [3][4][5][6] w:Wikipedia:Five pillars, w:Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, w:WP:WEIGHT, w:Wikipedia:Fringe theories, w:Wikipedia:No original research. POV-pushing (State = Russia, region = Chechen Republic --> State = Chechen Republic of Ichkeria)[7][8][9][10].
    5. Mega programmer - This administrator has made a much smaller violations in comparison with others. But he also uploaded the files without clear rationale, allowed for unethical behavior, insubstantial accusations.
    6. Sasan700 - massive original researches, illegitimate page protections (see above) 4555 Protections...
    7. Kade - unreasonable long-term blocking, illegitimate page protections (see above).
  3. Block user Sasan700 in all Wikimedia projects.
  4. We ask to start the new permission requests only on the Meta, including temporary access.
  5. Unblock users Dagirov Umar, Soul Train, and Saint Johann; recognize these blocking illegal and hide blocking logs.

Authors:

Discussion edit

  • Full Support Support the de-adminship of the recent ce-wiki sysops. One does not need to read the whole proposal (I have, however...) to identify a massive abuse here, because already the last diff by Generous shows that there is - at least (!) - a blatant copyright nihilism, where lots of pictures from the web or from the other WM projects are being uploaded, with faked license, without crediting the true authors etc. (a similar situation you can observe in the so-called "Wikireality", a website hosted mainly by indefbanned ru-wiki trolls just to defame some highly active ru-wiki editors). With that said, there's not only the need to clean ce-wiki from abusive admins, but in addition all images ever uploaded there have to be checked and (probably) lots of them deleted. I wonder why stewards hesitate, either. If I were steward, I would have de-sysoped immediately, because there's obviously a danger in delay. Thanks --A.Savin (talk) 08:28, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • IMO, the longer stewards keep silence and do literally nothing, the worse the reputation of Wikipedia gets. There's always a chance that the current situation might receive certain coverage by media, as it has already happened multiple times to the Russian Wikipedia in particular. And taking into consideration somewhat acute situation around present-day Chechnya, the resulting effect of the mentioned media coverage might not be the one that we actually want. --Niklem (talk) 11:22, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not only in Wikipedia. Here is the article about Chechen Wikipedia in Grozny's newspaper "Stolica Plus": Save Chechen Wikipedia! ([12]) Also, as I heard from Umar, Respublican TV of Grozny also wants to make some reportage about this situation.--Soul Train (talk) 12:04, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Full Support Support the de-adminship and de-bureaucratship of the recent ce-wiki sysops; Ce-wiki should be subordinated to the global administrators. I have long been following this situation, and I believe that prolonged inaction of the stewards is unacceptable and extremely harmful effect on the reputation of Wikipedia as a whole. It would be useful grant temporary adminship to a User:Дагиров Умар. --Kaganer (talk) 13:35, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The situation in Chechen Wikipedia really deserves attention. As far as I can see, there is a substantial evidence of prolonged sysop and bureaucrat abuse there, as well as violations of core Wikimedia policies. So I Support Support the de-adminship and de-bureaucratship of the ce-wiki 'crats and sysops. However, I Oppose Oppose granting temporary adminship to User:Дагиров Умар. I see him not as a neutral arbiter, but as another side of conflict, with his own history of abuse of Wikimedia rules and procedures (such as canvassing). Maybe we should appoint some of the Russian Wikipedia experienced admins for temporary adminship until ce-wiki gains substantial native community. Most of Chechen speakers also speak Russian, so communication won't be a problem in this case. --Grebenkov (talk) 00:34, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    To Grebenkov and Kaganer: We just ask to provide compliance with the basic rules. Who gonna be sysop - this should be decision of the community. And according this decision Umar was elected as sysop, twice de-facto.--Soul Train (talk) 08:06, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Most of the users who voted in support of Umar don't know Chechen language well enough to form a substantial community. The results of these elections were influenced by massive on-wiki and off-wiki canvassing. They do not represent community decision, as there is no community in ce-wiki in first place. --Grebenkov (talk) 16:02, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    "I see him <...> as another side of conflict" — I personally believe there's merely one side of conflict in this case, namely, a few pro-Ichkeria POV-pushers. And bringing the articles to the neutral state and/or removing original researches and copyvio does not make Дагиров Умар (and others) another side of conflict in no way. --Niklem (talk) 08:23, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    There is blatant abuse by present admins, such as POV-pushing, threats and copyright violations, and there is subtle abuse, such as canvassing and provoking knee-jerk reactions (which is a form of trolling), by Umar and his supporters. In a sense, the former is better, because it is visible and obvious. Last thing we want for cs-wiki is clique of admins coordinating their actions via skype chats and mailing lists, employing subtle methods of abuse mentioned above. --Grebenkov (talk) 16:02, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    I repeat, nobody asks to appoint Umar as administrator, all demands are in section "Demands". You going from Murmansk to Moscow through Vladivostok, as loved to say my mathematics teacher in the school. First of all, abuses of current Chechen-WP sysops, after that we'll think about upcoming administrators. And talking about trolling by Umar is very unethical from your side. Especially if we consider all the threats and insults at him.--Soul Train (talk) 17:02, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Umar have been canvassing in regard to bureaucrat request, his supporters also used canvassing methods during administrator election. As for provoking knee-jerk reaction and trolling, I can't think of another characteristic for Saint Johann actions. When he mass-nominated articles for deletion, he was just asking for trouble, all the while bragging in skype chats about becoming ce-wiki «greatest deletionist». What was he thinking? That ce-wiki admins who created these articles, upon seeing red deletion banner, would give up their erroneous ways and delete the articles? No, he was just provoking them to block him, so he could write about it here on Meta. --Grebenkov (talk) 20:57, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    You may call it "asking for trouble" or whatever else, but I've also mass-nominated but files for deletion; surely I did not brag about it. And surprisingly, most of thouse files have been actually deleted. --Niklem (talk) 21:33, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    You know, there is a big problem of all small wikis. Umar admitted his guilt in the bureaucrat request voting. But there were no abuses (canvassing) at the next request to administratorship. 13 users who vote for him just worried about the situation in Chechen Wikipedia, because you don't even need to know the language to see all those violations.--Soul Train (talk) 16:47, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, and the «vote for Umar» messages I've seen in ru-wiki sysop&closer skype chat during Umar's sysop election are just hallucinations. --Grebenkov (talk) 20:57, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Умар-то тут причём? Посмотрел бы я на твою реакцию, если бы твоему сыну угрожали убийством. Да любые эти правила Меты - полная чушь по сравнению с тем, что эти админы делали за пределами Википедии. Вот заладил волынку, тебе сколько раз повторять, не надо Умара делать админом, вообще, все эти заявки должны остаться в прошлом, надо снять флаги с этих, мягко говоря, нарушителей, начать раздел с чистого листа. Это единственная цель заявки. Будет он админом, кто-то другой - по барабану. А из остальных участников заявки вряд ли кто-то захочет себе такой геморрой устраивать, как админить в Че-ВП. Всё, тема закрыта, по 10 раз я одно и то же повторять не буду. Раз не понимаешь по-английски, написал тебе по-русски.--Soul Train (talk) 21:47, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Для справки: я тоже получал от Умара сообщение о тех выборах, и оно было выдержано в максимально нейтральном тоне и не содержало призыва голосовать за него. --Kaganer (talk) 23:15, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't agree with everything that has been said here, but I have seen some massive violations of conflict of interest, some questionable blocks, and some deletions of rights requests and rights withdrawal requests. Thus, I have to Support Support removal of all advanced rights on cewiki. However, the "other side" is just as involved in the battleground mentality, if not more involved. Thus I Oppose Oppose any promotion of the filing parties to sysop, and suggest that stewards and global sysops patrol the wiki for the next several months. --Rschen7754 08:26, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Support, adminity of ce-wiki 've done enough to be flushed out, and already long time ago. In fact, there seems to be no community understanding main Wikipedia rules in that section; so, position of that "side of conflict" just can't have much respects in global . The mentioned blocked users obviously should be unblocked. What about granting adminship rights, of course they should be given to people neutral enough in conflict. I don't think we should think about one to be unneutral just because he lives in specified region; there are common procedures of consensus search analizing RSs and rules, and if local gent is not used to it, this is their trouble. Ignatus (talk) 09:20, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    How someone can be neutral between two sides: international terrorist's position of separatists (their identity to terrorism officially recognized by the international community) and position of normal human, regardless of nationality, ethnicity, race, sex, age etc.?--Soul Train (talk) 22:16, 23 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    You don't have to be a terrorist to criticize Kadyrov's government and to support the independence of Chechnya from Russia. Neutral position in regard to Chechnya is quite different from both separatist and pro-Kremlin (pro-Kadyrov) POV. Not to mention that «one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter» (see ru:Халтурин, Степан Николаевич for example). --Grebenkov (talk) 15:11, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Well then, where is "pro-Kremlin POV" now being pushed in ce.wiki? And regarding your statement — what is truly neutral POV in your opinion? --Niklem (talk) 15:41, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you think that we all love Kadyrov? o_O You simply misunderstand the situation. This is not request to establishing Russian authorities in Chechen Wikipedia. This is request to restore Wikimedia Foundation's rules. And I even can't understand how could you make a wrong conclusion after the reading of this request.--Soul Train (talk) 15:42, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I can't read Chechen, but from my distant perspective I have one "universal" suggestion: use a jury system! Designate several well-known state lotteries as a source of random numbers to be used at a specified time in the future. Use those numbers to generate an oldid= number by a prearranged algorithm. Select whichever edit is first at or after that number, and do the same for a series of numbers obtained from it by adding a previously specified value. Whoever made those postings is selected for a "jury", and has the right to participate in making a binding decision. (A minor refinement: edits may be restricted to certain namespaces such as article namespace, or edits made in rapid succession should be disqualified by having the first edit make all those within five minutes ineligible, then the next one counts and makes those within five minutes of that ineligible) Create one 12-member jury for each admin position you want to have, and ask them to come to the best agreement they can on who should hold it. Hold jury selection every few days so that each jury has a chance to see who the previous ones selected, and international observers can verify the honesty of the process. The same system can be used for deciding which admins to have their permissions revoked. (longer explanation at Jury system) Wnt (talk) 21:52, 12 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Ha. Ha. Ha. And now imagine when somebody tries to kill you and your child (and Sasan700 threatened to Umar exactly this) and after that this your proposal will become an empty shell. Those villains like Sasan700 should go to prison, not administer Wikimedia Project.--Soul Train (talk) 00:45, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    By the way, I'm working in large translation agency. We have translators from/to Chechen language in our database. And their translations can be legally confirmed. If you want proffesional translation from Chechen to English - no problem. But, as I understand, this is the big problem for villains-sysops of Chechen Wikipedia since they though than nobody can understand their threats in Chechen language.--Soul Train (talk) 00:53, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

possible compromise edit

Good day! I propose to appoint a few neutral observers from the English Wikipedia administrator who helped develop the Chechen Wikipedia and control the actions of the current sysops. I do not mind, unlock locked users, if they promise not to provoke a new POV. They will be able to create pages as a standard user and offer to fix the existing, if they consider them wrong. Each such request is proposed to consider together - current administrators + Daggirov Umar and his friends + neutral observers.

I guess my solution is to satisfy all parties. Thank you very much for your attention. Mega programmer (talk) 19:23, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

IMO, this proposal is nothing but ingenuous attempt to keep the privileges of the current admins despite all the proofs of violations stated above. --Niklem (talk) 20:24, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I concur. There was clear evidence of tool abuse. --Rschen7754 20:31, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here is my answer (in Russian)--Soul Train (talk) 07:18, 25 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Deadline edit

One more week went away. Where's the Stewards reaction? Where this reaction, I'm asking you? Do you like anarchy or something? If there is no response within 1 day, I'll start writing to the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees.--Soul Train (talk) 08:51, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • This is request for comment. It's done to collect suggestions before making a request directly to stewards. Since there is no more comments, it's likely to be the time to. Ignatus (talk) 13:48, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upd.--Soul Train (talk) 10:46, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1. Kat Walsh (via E-Mail), 2. Jimbo Wales, 3. Philippe (WMF) (advocate for and to the Wikimedia community). Who will be next?--Soul Train (talk) 07:14, 12 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • And what we see in Chechen Wikipedia at the moment? Terrorists came back, blocked all users, deleted and blocked all voting-pages, show to everybody that they very active users, great sysops, who do not sleep for days and nights, but thinking only about the Great Future of Chechen Wikipedia! All those vandals like Dagirov Umar, Simba16, Soul Train, Saint Johann and others - they are thinking only about discredit of curent administrators! :) And so what now? Where is Kade, where is Sasan700? Excellent activity... And of course, because the Stewards doing nothing to stop those violations. In large projects you can loose admin-permissions if you do 1 per cent of their violations. But here you can threat, block, upload, delete, violate - nobody cares. Because Stewards can't do anything.--Soul Train (talk) 01:40, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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